Merge Siel+Israphel

[Zarbi]

26 minutes ago, Ceooek-KT said:

Why wouldn't NC merge servers though? 

...

Combined, it would leave you with a single Elyos dominated server, and nowhere for the Asmos to transfer to.

There are far more Elyos in NA than Asmos, although Siel is Asmo PvP dominant (look at the AP of the top 10 legions on Siel compared to Elyos top 10)

It was more balanced at the start, but  too many Asmos left IS for Siel which upset both servers.

Currently two servers with different faction balances gives you 4 scenarios for new characters.

However, all of what I just said is from a world PvP perspective, and has little to do with what actually goes on in the game, which is mostly PvE.

[Ceooek-KT]

Siel is Asmo dominated though. So if we merge the two servers , it would pretty much balance out.  Asmos would probably be the slight underdog in terms of numbers but Siel asmos have always been the underdog throughout aion history.. but the quality of pvp players more than made up for that.

[Zarbi]

21 minutes ago, Ceooek-KT said:

Siel is Asmo dominated though. So if we merge the two servers , it would pretty much balance out.  Asmos would probably be the slight underdog in terms of numbers but Siel asmos have always been the underdog throughout aion history.. but the quality of pvp players more than made up for that.

No it wouldn't it would swing the other way dramatically.

Someone posts the stats after each siege on the forum, have a read.

[Ceooek-KT]

The logs support even numbers after merge.

[MXJ]

5 hours ago, Ceooek-KT said:

Siel is Asmo dominated though. So if we merge the two servers , it would pretty much balance out.  Asmos would probably be the slight underdog in terms of numbers but Siel asmos have always been the underdog throughout aion history.. but the quality of pvp players more than made up for that.

Stop spreading misinformation. (That's a link, click it.)

The only reason Siel is "Asmodian Dominated" is because the Elyos are lazy and disorganized. Elyos have already shown that when they actually show up and coordinate with each other they're perfectly capable of winning.

And before someone says "Yeah but capable of winning doesn't mean it's balanced, it's still a struggle" - No. When I say "capable of winning" I mean that when Elyos actually show up, once they wipe Asmos once they can never get back into the fort a second time. 

_____

Siel's numbers are basically dead even, it's just a matter of whether or not the Elyos decide to show up on any day. Merging a server that is 990 Elyos / 1000 Asmos with a server that is 500 Elyos / 100 Asmos just means the only server is Elyos dominated.

[Ceooek-KT]

I don't know what weed you're smoking but the the abyss forts have been asmo dominated since classic launched. When was the last time elyos have taken a inner fort?

[MXJ]

Just now, Ceooek-KT said:

I don't know what weed you're smoking but the the abyss forts have been asmo dominated since classic launched. When was the last time elyos have taken a inner fort?

If you really want to use that logic, when was the last time Asmodians took Roah or Asteria? 

Anyone who uses results based analysis to try and prove a point is a nyerking fool.

There's a massive difference between "We won't show up until we get a PvP buff" and "No matter how many people we bring we still lose." It's always the former. After every siege you see people talking in Discord and on /3 saying "I would have attended, but NCSoft still hasn't given us incentives."

You posted the link to the logs, you can see that Elyos numbers on Siel are the same as Asmodians on any given day. They're choosing not to show up when they're needed. It's no one else's place to fix your lazy. 

[Ceooek-KT]

You're kidding me right? You do know the only reason elyos have roah and asteria is that asmos don't bother with it since we don't want the pvp buff, and we get repeats right? So elyos are left with the forts nobody wants like outers and lowers. 

No offense but you're spitting hypotheticals out of your ass "The only reason Siel is "Asmodian Dominated" is because the Elyos are lazy and disorganized. Elyos have already shown that when they actually show up and coordinate with each other they're perfectly capable of winning."

The same can be said for asmos when you don't win its because we don't organize/form. Hell this siege today we lost krotan to balaur, were there any asmo allies on lfg? no. 

I'm looking at the logs and saying facts. If you combine the two servers, the numbers that attend siege are pretty even. Pretty simple math.

[MXJ]

1 minute ago, Ceooek-KT said:

I'm looking at the logs and saying facts. If you combine the two servers, the numbers that attend siege are pretty even. Pretty simple math.

Then you're either bad at reading logs, or you're bad at math.

652 Asmodians, 724 Elyos + 188 Asmodians, 301 Elyos = 840 Asmodians, 1025 Elyos (-185)
722 Asmodians, 639 Elyos + 165 Asmodians, 311 Elyos = 887 Asmodians, 950 Elyos (-63)
631 Asmodians, 705 Elyos + 188 Asmodians, 337 Elyos = 856 Asmodians, 1042 Elyos (-186)
732 Asmodians, 735 Elyos + 225 Asmodians, 340 Elyos = 957 Asmodians, 1075 Elyos (-118)
602 Asmodians, 591 Elyos + 181 Asmodians, 308 Elyos = 793 Asmodians, 899 Elyos  (-106)

In spite of the fact that when you login to Siel-E during siege you see hundreds of people AFK in Sanctum (usually crafting) they still have even numbers of players in the Abyss. 

Again, choosing not to attend and losing is not the same as getting stomped every time you do. 

[Ceooek-KT]

100 players extra on one side when you already have 1000 each on siel is not going to make a difference. I rather bit slightly underhanded in the short term in siege than watch a whole server and game go to shit because of lack of population to group with.

[MXJ]

14 minutes ago, Ceooek-KT said:

100 players extra on one side when you already have 1000 each on siel is not going to make a difference. I rather bit slightly underhanded in the short term in siege than watch a whole server and game go to shit because of lack of population to group with.

Right because merging magically solves this issue, and people definitely don't quit because they're pissed off that a balanced server was intentionally made imbalanced in order to appease PvE players. 

The fact you think 100 extra people is no big deal says all anyone needs to know about you as a player. You probably don't even attend sieges. 20-30 people make the difference between winning or losing, but +100-200? Ah no big deal. 

[Squid]

I think you are forgetting the problem with siege is actually asmo's not having the balls to cap all forts. They have the power they could force elyos to contest if they want medals. However with the number of players NA had you do not need to contest every fort since the 3 inner uppers is enough for the population to obtain a steady stream of medals.

Elyos have no incentive to show up for asmo forts because why would you go when you know the PvE instances will be accessible by the losing faction. Beyond this asmo's rarely show up to contest the elyos forts because they are happy with their medals that elyos get free defense medals not going for inners.

Siege is designed for the 1000s not for the 300-500 people showing up each side so ultimately it is no ones fault it is actually the games design fault and the lack of players in the NA region because NA players dislike Aion.

[Ceooek-KT]

48 minutes ago, MXJ said:

The fact you think 100 extra people is no big deal says all anyone needs to know about you as a player. You probably don't even attend sieges. 20-30 people make the difference between winning or losing, but +100-200? Ah no big deal. 

Again throwing hypotheticals out of your ass. And cherry-picking logs based on population rather than actual attendances from the past 3months. Attendance numbers alone show that merging the server would provide even attendance at siege. 

In a siege of 1200 vs 1100, no it wouldn't make a big difference. Clearly you've never been in the underdog faction of asmo siel either. 

 

[MXJ]

Just now, Ceooek-KT said:

Again throwing hypotheticals out of your ass. And cherry-picking logs based on population rather than actual attendances from the past 3months. Attendance numbers alone show that merging the server would provide even attendance at siege. 

In a siege of 1200 vs 1100, no it wouldn't make a big difference. Clearly you've never been in the underdog faction of asmo siel either. 

I played the underdog (Asmo) for 4 years on a permanent 70/30 server through merge after merge, because every time they merged an Asmo dominated server into an Elyos dominated server half of the Asmos from the dominating server quit or rerolled Elyos, because they couldn't stomp as hard anymore. 

Merging is not a solution, because even in scenarios where the "post merge numbers" are perfectly even there will still be people who quit because they only like playing the game if they win every fight. A great (albeit extreme) example of this is the people who choose to hack or bot in order to gain an advantage. 

As for "cherry picking logs" I literally took the last 5 posts in the thread, because the last 5 posts are the most recent data, which is the most relevant. Cherry picking would be me choosing to use data from the siege in July where there were 1600 Elyos, and 1200 Asmodians on Siel, or where there were 200 Elyos, and 20 Asmodians on Israphel.

I don't care about attendance numbers, because the Elyos are the players choosing not to attend. No one is telling them they can't. No one is holding them back or restricting them in any way. 

Note the similarities in the following sentences.

Siel Elyos players are choosing not to attend sieges. Merge the servers so Siel Elyos can get some help. 
Bob stayed home from work to play video games. Give Bob a bonus so he'll still have some money. 

What's really sad is that Elyos already have the easier leveling process between better overworld progression, easier campaign quests that give more EXP, more access to dungeons at lower levels, easier access to the Siel's forts, having all the relevant world bosses in the Elyos regions, better rift locations. Playing Elyos is already playing on easy mode, now people are asking for NCSoft to hold their hand too? 

 

[Stormwing]

@MXJ:
Players writing on this board do not like to get called out by facts and logs. I made the exact same calculation in another topic, just with slightly different numbers at that time.

[MXJ]

1 minute ago, Stormwing said:

@MXJ:
Players on this board do not like to get called out by facts and logs. I made the exact same calculation in another topic.

Data (and data analysis) is basically witchcraft to a fool. Only "witches" (evil wrongdoers) could possibly understand it, therefore it must be wrong. 

[Arhangelos]

Looks like the load keeps getting lower day by day in servers that aren't even 3 months old yet.

~~~

Siel doesn't seem Asmodian dominated at least by the logs. You can't know who is an actual player and who is a bot but even if you see a lot of Elyos afk crafting in Sanctum, you see a ton of Asmodians doing the same in Pandemonium.
Israphel is Elyos dominated by the logs, merging the two servers will break the balance of SL and give Elyos a slight advantage overall.

There is obviously a difference in level 50s in Siel but that can change in future, that is Classic where people need time to reach level 50 and time to gear  themselves. Also you can't be sure how many of the level 50s are bots or actual players either, the count goes both ways. If we take the numbers just as they are, then Siel Server is sharply at 50%-50%

People in Abyss and Total World Count can be interpreted as "actual players vs bots" or "attendance vs non attendance". People can always cherry pick whatever serves their narrative.

~~

Taken from this last post as of today:

 

[Wsnow]

14 hours ago, Aaabatery said:

Where was this? No flaming here, just curious, I read reddit, read the oficial forums, Facebook, Twitter, etc. and never saw a discussion where people said SI was the go-to server. If I knew, I really wouldn't go IS as my main.

EU servers

[Khonsu-DN]

I think Classic merge is long overdue especially with shrinking numbers.

It is also hilarious the super anti-merge guy who claimed IS was so populated and posted each day to attack posts against NCsoft got banned for ap trading. LOL

[Ceooek-KT]

2 hours ago, MXJ said:

Merging is not a solution, because even in scenarios where the "post merge numbers" are perfectly even there will still be people who quit because they only like playing the game if they win every fight. A great (albeit extreme) example of this is the people who choose to hack or bot in order to gain an advantage. 

I don't care about attendance numbers, because the Elyos are the players choosing not to attend. No one is telling them they can't. No one is holding them back or restricting them in any way. 

...

Note the similarities in the following sentences.

Siel Elyos players are choosing not to attend sieges. Merge the servers so Siel Elyos can get some help. 
Bob stayed home from work to play video games. Give Bob a bonus so he'll still have some money. 

 

I don't care about microscopic movements happening at the individual level. Players leaving for another faction because they want an advantage, players wanting to quit the game for personal reasons, whatever. I'm saying at a macroscopic level, merging is the solution to the hemorrhaging of players on Israphel. The point is both factions can't find people to group with for content, and sieges are skewed terribly in favor of elyos. Unless, we get a tremendous influx of new players, merging IS the solution. 
 

No one is trying to please siel Elyos here. All I'm saying is that merging the servers will greatly alleviate the imbalance on IS server without impacting siel all that much. Sure, no one is denying the total world population is 50-50% but your facts dont include the reality that for the past 3 months, asmos have DOMINATED the abyss and asmo attendance and level 50 numbers for forts where both factions actively attempt are skewed in favor of the asmos.  You can try blaming that on elyos being lazy to show up but who really knows, these are just subjective and anecdotal experiences.  The logs have consistently shown a proportionality greater of asmo lvl 50 and attendance numbers to forts that matter i.e. upper inners that give the most medals.

P.S. your comparisons are wack

Are you the same dude that compared ap trading to murder? reading logs differently from yourself as witchcraft?

[Stormwing]

@Ceooek-KT:
Having a balanced population and having an equal siege attendance are different topics.

@Merrixx:
I can not remember any merge, of the five I experienced, which solved an issue long term. There usually was a hype (besides name and housing conflicts) for two weeks because maps were full again. However, people soon realised that their (not mine) core issues like game mechanics, publishers and/or the community remained. People that complain now that they can not farm guards due to one side dominating are not going to farm guards after a merge either (occupied already, getting killed as well, even more contested, outgeared). I do not mind a merge, but I do not believe that it provides the long term salvation many are hoping for.

[Ceooek-KT]

OP had one concern only which is the lack of players to group with for content, which merging the servers WILL solve.

The thread got derailed from the discussion that NCSoft will never merge the servers because population is balanced in their eyes, and merging would favor elyos in siege.  Again, as I mentioned we keep talking on and on about total world population being the single deciding factor when it comes to balance. The reality is asmos on siel have more attendance and more 50's. MXJ likes to attribute the lack of elyos attendance to laziness, but it could be due to other factors like elyos have more bots, more role players, more alts, who knows. My point is it's really subjective and unknown - but fact remains that asmos have more numbers in the abyss, hence balance favors asmos in this regard.

Either way it seems that Aion players and NCSoft finally have the same perspective on something, lets just leave IS server to die. That's new.

 

[Splinter]

1 hour ago, Ceooek-KT said:

OP had one concern only which is the lack of players to group with for content, which merging the servers WILL solve.

The thread got derailed from the discussion that NCSoft will never merge the servers because population is balanced in their eyes, and merging would favor elyos in siege.  Again, as I mentioned we keep talking on and on about total world population being the single deciding factor when it comes to balance. The reality is asmos on siel have more attendance and more 50's. MXJ likes to attribute the lack of elyos attendance to laziness, but it could be due to other factors like elyos have more bots, more role players, more alts, who knows. My point is it's really subjective and unknown - but fact remains that asmos have more numbers in the abyss, hence balance favors asmos in this regard.

Either way it seems that Aion players and NCSoft finally have the same perspective on something, lets just leave IS server to die. That's new.

 

So if the 2 servers merge and then one faction has more attendance how will you fix that then? You are trying to fix Israphel's problem by including another healthy server which has no reason to want additional trouble.

If the thousans of people who started didn't quit because of the stupid model, IS would have been the easy light server everyone hoped it would be unlike Siel which everyone thought it would be always full and competitive.

[Aaabatery]

3 hours ago, Wsnow said:

EU servers

So, I'm playing in NA, what does EU had to do with me? I had no way of knowing beforehand. As much as I want not to this is another reason this is not a player's fault but NCW poor management.

[Ceooek-KT]

 

5 hours ago, Splinter said:

So if the 2 servers merge and then one faction has more attendance how will you fix that then? You are trying to fix Israphel's problem by including another healthy server which has no reason to want additional trouble.

If the thousans of people who started didn't quit because of the stupid model, IS would have been the easy light server everyone hoped it would be unlike Siel which everyone thought it would be always full and competitive.

What healthy server lol? Siel lost over 2k players since it started. And IS is NOT the lightweight server everyone hoped for. And if you read my posts, my uber point is merging would not impact attendance that much. Anyways I'm done with this topic lol. We have too many selfish players that think like NC rather than hearing the outcry of IS players wanting to transfer to siel.