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Sorc can still DPS enemies like before, the thing is that, many sorc pre 6.x learned 1 or 2 rotations and if it failed they just sleep/root until it became available again, rinse and repeat.
Now they removed many skills used to do that the damage is still pretty high, but when they master the class as is nowadays, they are almost unbeatable but you need few things:
1.- skills
2.- Gear
3.- good rotation.

Now let's talk about Templars and Gladiators resisting everything from slows, roots, fears, almost any magic skill..... cant kill that as magical class, and even less with the new damage added by this patch... I am still on 3 ultimate items and the rest Legendary... it is still a long way for me :(

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                 I had a conversation with Arotta on his stream about this a while back.  I think sorc is still very good. If still does what it needs to and has a position in groups if the person knows who to cc and when. A sorc can still very much 100-0 most classes. Pre magic suppression days was where sorc shined because of damage and it usually only took 1 rotation to kill everyone and was the only class that could basically not have to use a magical accuracy set because of supplication of focus. Now though with some classes that has changed due to hp etc. A glad has so many resists now and templars are now tanky and also have a lot of burst making those match ups a little harder for them now. My problem with sorc is if someone new came to the game and asked me which of the cloth classes I would recommend I would tell them a sm or sw. If I had to choose again it would be a sw. Why choose something that is a bit harder to use when you can play something easier with the same returns?

                The difference between say sw and sorc is a sw has more room for error and has a good chance of countering it's bad match ups because of it's utilities. Heals, cc and nukes. Plus now the damage is off the chain for a lot of classes so sorc shines a little less. I think they should give back some of that burst to sorc because it was advertised as basically a "glass cannon" class. Never thought I'd see the day when the "wall.e" class would have higher bursts than a sorc and a class that mutates you into an animal and forces you to dance like you were staring in a 1980s Michael Jackson music video. 

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2 hours ago, Briearios-DN said:

                 I had a conversation with Arotta on his stream about this a while back.  I think sorc is still very good. If still does what it needs to and has a position in groups if the person knows who to cc and when. A sorc can still very much 100-0 most classes. Pre magic suppression days was where sorc shined because of damage and it usually only took 1 rotation to kill everyone and was the only class that could basically not have to use a magical accuracy set because of supplication of focus. Now though with some classes that has changed due to hp etc. A glad has so many resists now and templars are now tanky and also have a lot of burst making those match ups a little harder for them now. My problem with sorc is if someone new came to the game and asked me which of the cloth classes I would recommend I would tell them a sm or sw. If I had to choose again it would be a sw. Why choose something that is a bit harder to use when you can play something easier with the same returns?

                The difference between say sw and sorc is a sw has more room for error and has a good chance of countering it's bad match ups because of it's utilities. Heals, cc and nukes. Plus now the damage is off the chain for a lot of classes so sorc shines a little less. I think they should give back some of that burst to sorc because it was advertised as basically a "glass cannon" class. Never thought I'd see the day when the "wall.e" class would have higher bursts than a sorc and a class that mutates you into an animal and forces you to dance like you were staring in a 1980s Michael Jackson music video. 

Doesn't main a sorc, and would recommend playing one but states' "that's it's very good-. Not a very convincing argument.

Please name which classes a sorc  can "very much" 100-0. An SM? a ranger? a glad? a vandal? a cleric...running out of "most" by now..

Incidentally, you happen to be incorrect about sorcs regarding the number of sets that they had to have a well prior to the introduction of magic suppression especially prior to the cap on MR. It wasn't quite as easy as "click on my one stigma" and I'm set. 

 

 

 

Edited by Rapier-DN

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3 hours ago, Rapier-DN said:

Doesn't main a sorc, and would recommend playing one but states' "that's it's very good-. Not a very convincing argument.

Please name which classes a sorc  can "very much" 100-0. An SM? a ranger? a glad? a vandal? a cleric...running out of "most" by now..

Incidentally, you happen to be incorrect about sorcs regarding the number of sets that they had to have a well prior to the introduction of magic suppression especially prior to the cap on MR. It wasn't quite as easy as "click on my one stigma" and I'm set. 

 

 

 

I was waiting for someone to use the doesn't main a sorc as a basis for an argument. I use to main SM first when I started playing Aion. After my first server went down the drain due to faction imbalances I created and mained a sorc for 5 years on Israphel. This is the only picture I have saved from when I started sorc. I still have the only DLR mythical tome that was on Israphel in my warehouse to this day. I only had one set. I didn't have a MA set and still killed clerics in full MR. No I am bragging or even saying I was a good sorc but I do know what I am talking about. I also still have that sorc and occasionally pop on him because I like the class still. My only set was also EC arena gear. Why are you so angry?

CxQEVID.jpgI

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1 hour ago, Briearios-DN said:

I was waiting for someone to use the doesn't main a sorc as a basis for an argument. I use to main SM first when I started playing Aion. After my first server went down the drain due to faction imbalances I created and mained a sorc for 5 years on Israphel. This is the only picture I have saved from when I started sorc. I still have the only DLR mythical tome that was on Israphel in my warehouse to this day. I only had one set. I didn't have a MA set and still killed clerics in full MR. No I am bragging or even saying I was a good sorc but I do know what I am talking about. I also still have that sorc and occasionally pop on him because I like the class still. My only set was also EC arena gear. Why are you so angry?

CxQEVID.jpgI

 

Point is, what does maining a sorc 5 years ago or  a screenshot do  with playing one now? That's right- very little.

You still  haven't answered my question - what classes would a sorc easily  be about to "100-o" now. in 7.0. Not years ago.

If you read any of this as being "angry"- kindly stop dodging.

 

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You still  haven't answered my question - what classes would a sorc easily  be about to "100-o" now. in 7.0. Not years ago.

I dont know exactly what he means by 100-0, but a sorc as long as the opponent doesnt have remove shock will burst them in like 5 sec. You can find examples here on 0:44 against the glad, on 1:23:40 against the Cleric, etc. 

 

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Thank you for posting the video, I always find your information very helpful. I have to admit I didn't go through the whole thing- but I did want to say that if that sorc has Kaisenel, that's really  doesn't apply to any sorc that I personally know of as yet (the closest is an SM so far that I could compare to)  I'm sure that it would help a lot. 

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3 hours ago, Rapier-DN said:

 

Point is, what does maining a sorc 5 years ago or  a screenshot do  with playing one now? That's right- very little.

You still  haven't answered my question - what classes would a sorc easily  be about to "100-o" now. in 7.0. Not years ago.

If you read any of this as being "angry"- kindly stop dodging.

 

           When you replied to my post you were under the assumption that I have never mained or played a sorc. Is that correct or incorrect? You were basically implying everything I was saying were assumptions not based on knowledge gained from playing the class or you wouldn't have stated that "You don't main sorc". You also seem to have glossed over when I stated I still play that toon up to today. You don't have to play a class to know what it does if you have fought against it many times. Every class in this game has basically the same rotations and game plan. Sorc game plan has not changed. CC, bury, nuke. The only difference between good sorcs and other sorcs is decision making. As Matsukamy-KT has stated you can also kill people especially if their remove shock is gone. He posted a video. If you'd like more proof do what I do I Youtube "Aion sorc pvp". You can Youtube "Itami Aion" on Youtube and he has pvp videos of sorcs doing exactly what I told you I am confused with the "dodging". What am I dodging?         Your first time stamp Matsukamy-KT. You said 0:44 right? That's the beginning on the stream. I didn't watch the whole video but I saw the cleric fight and there's one where he fought a glad, killed him twice with no deaths and the glad peaced out. Did you mean that one?

 

 

Edited by Briearios-DN

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2 hours ago, Briearios-DN said:

           When you replied to my post you were under the assumption that I have never mained or played a sorc. Is that correct or incorrect? You were basically implying everything I was saying were assumptions not based on knowledge gained from playing the class or you wouldn't have stated that "You don't main sorc". You also seem to have glossed over when I stated I still play that toon up to today. You don't have to play a class to know what it does if you have fought against it many times. Every class in this game has basically the same rotations and game plan. Sorc game plan has not changed. CC, bury, nuke. The only difference between good sorcs and other sorcs is decision making. As Matsukamy-KT has stated you can also kill people especially if their remove shock is gone. He posted a video. If you'd like more proof do what I do I Youtube "Aion sorc pvp". You can Youtube "Itami Aion" on Youtube and he has pvp videos of sorcs doing exactly what I told you I am confused with the "dodging". What am I dodging?         Your first time stamp Matsukamy-KT. You said 0:44 right? That's the beginning on the stream. I didn't watch the whole video but I saw the cleric fight and there's one where he fought a glad, killed him twice with no deaths and the glad peaced out. Did you mean that one?

 

 

Can you  provide a simple, direct answer to the class and/or classes that you believe that  a sorc can easily kill in 7.0 1v1  , and to clarify, without requiring Kaisenel transform.

That's my simple question. I'm not inferring anything. You stated, I disagree- I simply want to to know which ones. I happen to believe you'll have a hard time coming up with it.

 

Edited by Rapier-DN

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3 hours ago, Rapier-DN said:

Can you  provide a simple, direct answer to the class and/or classes that you believe that  a sorc can easily kill in 7.0 1v1  , and to clarify, without requiring Kaisenel transform.

That's my simple question. I'm not inferring anything. You stated, I disagree- I simply want to to know which ones. I happen to believe you'll have a hard time coming up with it.

 

Looking through all my posts to see where exactly the word "easily" was typed by me. Yes you are inferring. I didn't state anything. At this point it seems you are arguing for the sake of arguing. Now you are saying in 7.0 1 vs 1 where they are videos of sorcs 100-0 some classes in korean videos and even EU. I posted a video with a sorc dueling the class with the most defenses and highest hp pool. 3 times the sorc 100-0 the temp without losing hp. Now you're conveniently stating " to clarify without requiring Kaisnel". "Name a class" you keep saying. On equal footing logic dictates the same situations will happen because of rng. Ancient versus ancient same gear it can happen. I am not going to keep logging back into the forums when it seems you are literally arguing for argument sake. I have an early morning. Have a great week.

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wasa-EK   
On 8/30/2019 at 5:40 PM, Rapier-DN said:

These last rotations point out out just how condescending, and just how out of touch some  theory-crafters that don't main a sorc in the current release really are. 

 

On 8/31/2019 at 0:31 PM, Rapier-DN said:

It is actually not that simple. 

You could also keep repeating that the earth is flat  enough times and convince yourself that it's true., which is your right. But I would also say that it wouldn't prove that it's true.

Balance  has changed that dramatically in the past 10 years- THAT is the simple truth. No one say's that's it's impossible for a sorc to win in PVP - but the skill cap compared to other classes does not make it easy , forgiving or simple, in this release especially in OW

The "game knowledge" that experienced sorcs  have leads many to conclude that  the work it takes  is often not worth the rewards in comparison to other classes for the same or better rewards (or even actual fun in PVP) and it is a indeed partially a question of the toolbox now. That's not only in this region incidentally.

 

tenor.gif

On 9/2/2019 at 0:25 AM, Szellemoon-DN said:

Sorc can still DPS enemies like before
when they master the class as is nowadays, they are almost unbeatable

lol

10 hours ago, Matsukamy-KT said:

I dont know exactly what he means by 100-0, but a sorc as long as the opponent doesnt have remove shock will burst them in like 5 sec. You can find examples here on 0:44 against the glad, on 1:23:40 against the Cleric, etc. 

[video]

 

That glad just gets outplayed hard throughout the arena. Also if you actually watch the arena vs that cleric then you'd see that the match was clearly in favor of the cleric pvp-wise but ofc it's arena so other bs mechanics kick in. The score ends up 1-0, with the sorc "winning". But go through and actually watch the pvp. The sorc gets 1 kill in that entire 9 minutes of pvp in a moment where the cleric doesn't even play off sorc's RS gameplay well (which is what any cleric that knows what they're doing should do, or any class for that matter). Clearly had an opening to use prayer or modor buff to easily survive after RS pop or in between the poorly timed stunlock and doesn't. Which led to the 1 kill for the sorc in this entire arena. How many times does the cleric use RS during the arena? 1 kill for the sorc for the whole arena is a bad example of a sorc being able to 5 second burst an opponent without RS. This cleric's actually playing really poorly yet the sorc still struggles to get a kill at all. Consider the cooldown for cleric's prayer this patch and watch how often the cleric uses it. Also at 1:28:17 the cleric was going to get a kill but the sorc jumps down presumably to prevent 3rd round point mechanics kicking in, keeping the cleric's kill score at 0 . 1:30:48 the sorc uses a full heal pot at low hp which he got from one of the arena chest spawns which basically gives him an extra life and even after all that he barely survives at the very end of the arena with like 9k hp left. So it should have been 2-1 in favor of the cleric, 3-1 if given just a couple more seconds for the sorc to die from those dots. The huge point difference comes from the sorc playing off arena mechanics and sleeping then collecting pve points as well as suiciding before the 3rd round to deflate points. If anything, that arena is more of an example of the struggles of playing sorc. But sure I guess you could take that 1 kill out of context and say a sorc can 100-0 burst in 5 seconds ezmode op class git gud etc etc lol

 

10 hours ago, Rapier-DN said:

Thank you for posting the video, I always find your information very helpful. I have to admit I didn't go through the whole thing- but I did want to say that if that sorc has Kaisenel, that's really  doesn't apply to any sorc that I personally know of as yet (the closest is an SM so far that I could compare to)  I'm sure that it would help a lot. 

Read what I typed above and go back and watch the arenas he refers to. They're really not good examples of sorc strength. Also, Kaisinel doesn't change sorc's overall strength too much. The class still has the same problems. Kaisinel benefits every class in the game and makes everyone's gameplay faster. It speeds things up for everybody. So while a sorc's bury gets faster and thus harder to react to, so does a sin's. So does a SM's. Same for every class. Sure, some classes benefit from Kaisinel more than others (mainly casters due to a heavy lack of/need for both attack and cast speeds) and one of these classes is sorc but literally none of sorc's hard matchups turn easy just because of Kaisinel (given that both players have it). There's no sorc matchup that turns from not being sorc-sided to being sorc-sided with it. It's still the same gameplay and rotations. It just seems really OP for us in NA because Kaisinel is rare and we're comparing them to legendaries thinking "if I just had Kaisinel I would win!" or we watch Kaisinel gameplay and it looks so crisp and fast seeing those speeds and we wish we could play in those conditions. Also consider that melee classes may not feel as much benefit from Kaisinel but they arguably have an easier time dealing with ranged classes in 7.0 from having more accessible extendies available. 

 

11 hours ago, Briearios-DN said:

@Rapier-DN This was just posted on Youtube. watch his second duel against the sorc. I am now watching the full video. 

[video]

Great duel video, thanks for posting. I really enjoy watching these kind of high level duels and seeing how good players play the matchups especially when it comes to sorc pvp where it's basically impossible for me to find good sorc pvp videos (from NA) to learn from for the latest patches. The curse of weakness -> crippling spear -> soul freeze opener seems solid and fast af with Kaisinel. I like it. 

9 hours ago, Rapier-DN said:

Can you  provide a simple, direct answer to the class and/or classes that you believe that  a sorc can easily kill in 7.0 1v1  , and to clarify, without requiring Kaisenel transform.

That's my simple question. I'm not inferring anything. You stated, I disagree- I simply want to to know which ones. I happen to believe you'll have a hard time coming up with it.

 

It's an impossible question to answer because there isn't one. Even winning as a sorc in sorc's current most winnable matchup (glad) has to be earned. It's not an easy win the way AT or leather vs sorc is, or SM vs chanter or certain other matchups are. Even with Kaisinel. 

8 hours ago, Briearios-DN said:

Now you are saying in 7.0 1 vs 1 where they are videos of sorcs 100-0 some classes in korean videos and even EU. I posted a video with a sorc dueling the class with the most defenses and highest hp pool. 3 times the sorc 100-0 the temp without losing hp. 

Well yeah sure there are a couple of times in that video that the sorc wins as you say. In the second duel you mentioned the sorc bursts the templar down before the temp gets to use any defensive CDs. If he had popped iron skin or empyrean armor rather than pulling on iron clad he could have survived it. In another duel where the temp loses quickly the sorc catches the temp with arcane thunderbolt right as he pops RS which gave him a free win. Kind of a troll win, not like he actually outplayed the guy there. I don't recall the 3rd one you mentioned, don't feel like going back through the video just to see exactly what happened. Anyway, what was the final score between them? 7-4 in favor of the templar? 8-4? I forget, but the temp wins more than he loses. He 100-0's the sorc multiple times as well so it's not sorc-sided at all. Anyway, who cares what the score was. It's clear the templar won more but many duels were close and they're both clearly very good and know what they're doing. It's just good pvp.

Keep in mind though that this video you linked is from 7.2 where sorc burst is undoubtedly better than what is possible in the current patch for us NA players. The sorc is running glacial shard / whirlwind / flame spray / sleep storm spec with full +12 stigmas for 7.2's perma aetherblaze buff along with enchanted crippling spear which also gets buffed in 7.2 and in that patch you don't lose damage when you burst on CC because sleeps no longer increase mdef. 

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I didnt read everything after what I posted, plan to do later, but It must be stressed that in those arenas and duels they use tons of those 20% HP potions, 30 sec CD that they can buy on cash shop and we don't, along with the others we have access to only a few so it's naturally harder to kill someone there.

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Also, it must be pointed that Dykim plays almost all classes although he is a sin player, and when he duels, most of the time he wins more than loses regardless of the class he is playing. He also plays sorc sometimes.

Here you can see him playing glad against that Templar:

http://vod.afreecatv.com/PLAYER/STATION/47304235

Glad vs painter(sry, I'm not saying Vandal.)

http://vod.afreecatv.com/PLAYER/STATION/47300066

And here he plays a sorc:

http://vod.afreecatv.com/PLAYER/STATION/47303280

 

 

Edited by Matsukamy-KT

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OK, one of these is a sorc vs sorc, so I don't understand the point in this thread since it's really discussing sorc  as being viable in comparison to  other classes -  however what specifically did you want to point out in the second one with the sorc vs the sin?

In addition these are 7.2 -  I don't know all of the skill changes that we should get in 7.2, just  no magic defense increase on CC for sorcs. It would be especially helpful  if anyone knows what the skill changes are  (or I guess it's back to Powerbook).....

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This one is quite interesting, look at this gladiator making a fool of himself chasing naengpa around the map, trying to kill him:

 

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On 9/7/2019 at 7:08 PM, Matsukamy-KT said:

This one is quite interesting, look at this gladiator making a fool of himself chasing naengpa around the map, trying to kill him:

 

That video was hilarious. If I were that glad I would have not bothered chasing him to get destroyed each time. I found a video of 7.0 sorc pvp. I forgot about this guy. I think he mains gunner? I can't remember. There's other 7.0 sorc pvp videos on this same youtube channel. 

 

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On 7/9/2019 at 6:46 PM, Calista-DN said:

(or I guess it's back to Powerbook).....

Powerbook is ded, Kelekelio retired from Aion, his last update was in april.

You will need to move out to Aiondb.ru or lfstrat i guess.

Edited by DevilNest-KT

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Jake-DN   
On 8/31/2019 at 3:31 PM, Rapier-DN said:

It is actually not that simple. 

You could also keep repeating that the earth is flat  enough times and convince yourself that it's true., which is your right. But I would also say that it wouldn't prove that it's true.

Balance  has changed that dramatically in the past 10 years- THAT is the simple truth. No one say's that's it's impossible for a sorc to win in PVP - but the skill cap compared to other classes does not make it easy , forgiving or simple, in this release especially in OW

The "game knowledge" that experienced sorcs  have leads many to conclude that  the work it takes  is often not worth the rewards in comparison to other classes for the same or better rewards (or even actual fun in PVP) and it is a indeed partially a question of the toolbox now. That's not only in this region incidentally.

 

 

So I am going to assume you've never played competitively.

 

Yes other classes are easier to play than others to get similar results. 

 

See SM since Aion birth.

See Templar since 3.0/4.0.

 

 

Point is, the game is completely different at a skilled level of play. Those 1-2-3-4 button iWin classes, although far easier and simpler, will not win as easy at higher level skill play, and the catering to their simplicity is their downfall. 

 

At a skilled level of play, assuming equal gear, many classes deemed weak actually are superior.

 

The issue we truly face now, is that no one has skill in this game because of all of the mechanics that encourage the lack of it.

 

I'll be the first to admit I'm not even as sharp as I used to be because of how this game has gone, with certain skill updates (i.e. vision stigmas/daeva skills) and enchantments and gear upgrades that I can play with cruise control rather than actually trying and genuinely PvPing. 

 

PvP is a dead art in this game. Skill doesn't matter. And honestly the sickest part is that RNG isn't even the fault (which is used to be). It is a complete embarrassment to admit that I wish we had the game back when godstones were the greatest fear in a PvP fight.

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. I found a video of 7.0 sorc pvp. I forgot about this guy. I think he mains gunner? I can't remember. There's other 7.0 sorc pvp videos on this same youtube channel. 

@Briearios-DN, actually, si jeon goes all the way back from classic aion, same as sungmin. He always played sorc, and i would rarely if ever see him losing one arena. He started playing gunner on 5.x i think. He has an youtube channel as well, as i used to see his arenas there. Right now i foun donly this channel

 

But im not sure its his channel or just someone who post videos of him. I KNOW for sure that he had a channel on youtube though.

There is also this sorc that i used to watch:

https://youtu.be/KxT5iN9qBbQ

 

Quote

That video was hilarious. If I were that glad I would have not bothered chasing him to get destroyed each time

If you think this was hilarious, then watch this from 27:00 to 53:00. This is really a must watch.

 

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ykcuL-DN   
44 minutes ago, Matsukamy-KT said:

@Briearios-DN, actually, si jeon goes all the way back from classic aion, same as sungmin. He always played sorc, and i would rarely if ever see him losing one arena. He started playing gunner on 5.x i think. He has an youtube channel as well, as i used to see his arenas there. Right now i foun donly this channel

But im not sure its his channel or just someone who post videos of him. I KNOW for sure that he had a channel on youtube though.

That is his youtube, I think he tried uploading stuff and it wasn't getting enough attention so he stopped.

http://bj.afreecatv.com/leeyh1949

can't say I watch kaion streams anymore but I think he still plays gunner/sorc but timezones so GL. Easily the best sorc/gunner gameplay I've seen when I watched him in 4.8 - 5.8.

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On 7/8/2019 at 7:36 AM, MechEagIe-DN said:

People who play sorc : hi im from Brazil and i will like to silence stun you on first skill. Its ok i know you gona do focus evasion, but im still gona silence first skill. Cause my class is garbage!

Funny when people play the retarded-op classes that never get: silenced, slowed, stunned or rooted, and have the defenses and HP of a true solid tank and the damage of a true canon and they have an opinion on the most nerfed class in the game.

The problem with sorc is that he is made of glass and can't do as much damage as many others classes do because of their defenses. A gunner has insane amount of dps, has instant skill and has a shield that gives him +3000 pvp for so much time. while this shield is on a gunner gets a 2-digit dmg from enemies while he is still a cannon class. SW is a sorc with heals. SM is SM. Semi-tanks are actually true tanks with insane dps etc.

Sorc has to cast most of the skills and has absolutely no survivability vs dmg input, while he will get every single stun and every stumble.

GAgh0NG.jpg

 

Edited by Arhangelos-KT

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Jake-DN   

Don't know who made that tier list, but they're garbage.

SM will always be a contender for the best class in game due to fear. 

No fear, I can see S rank still and maybe A.

 

 

I won't even go into all the other issues. Clearly someone who hasn't even attempted skilled play. *insert ego face*.

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