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TheSecretCowLeve-KT

Crucible Spire: How different classes are performing (Week ending 2019-10-02)

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Thanks for the stats.

New classes must be op otherwise no one will gear it up and invest money for lots of stuffs.

They will get tiny nerf every single patch like gunners 

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Lapis-DN   

wow, chanters are always underperforming when it comes to DPS / comparing to other classes stuff.
That's so bad. The only time it changed a bit was in 5.8~6.0

 

 

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Posted (edited)

I dont think this is really accurate because my chanter makes it to floor 17 with Tahabata and sometimes if im lucky I make it to the bug after and there is always one person from DN who beats me, maybe because it was taken last week and I didnt run the last 2 weeks but even when I forget to get dp and good pots etc I still make it to 15 and there are plenty of chanters at 15 the sheba wannabe and 16 the little darus.

I think the big thing is since the chanter "nerf" on recovery spell making the chanter, in the masses eye, weak and the fact no one plays temp which is very gear dependent the numbers are low for these classes but floor 18 is normally what I see as the top floors for temp and chanter which I do agree have the lowest but also some of the lowest participants.

Chanter dps stigmas are needed for a good cruci run but if you try to play dps chanter in pvp you will not have a fun time because your burst and dps isnt not on par with other classes 1v1 you are fine but honestly who 1v1s in this game so most chanters run hybrid or support chanter. I run support chanter and I get to 14 with dps I get to 18. So I know there are dps chanter better than me because my dps stigmas aren't all +9.

I just dont want the good name of chanter smeared with data suggesting they are underpowered

Edited by Ereliya-KT

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1 hour ago, Ereliya-KT said:

I just dont want the good name of chanter smeared with data suggesting they are underpowered

@TheSecretCowLeve-KT isn't "smearing" anything. They literally just posted the actual ranks from Crucible last week. They're just posting the raw data for people to see. I was rank 2 in chanter Crucible last week and I only completed floor 15.

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I mean maybe, since I am in the process of moving I haven't been able to run cruci and haven't checked on the ranks last week or yesterday, but normally I see 18 as the top for chanter maybe people got tired or had other things going on? I just feel like if he is talking about the vandal and strength comparing to other classes its better to get a wider range of data to avoid from making classes look like they are much worse, seeing as that is all most of the players will get from this post. Cruci is a how well your class can sustain while keeping up good dps so classes with high dps no sustain suffer as well as high sustain lower dps. So with that being said, I'm just trying to state that Crucible Spire is an awful way to gauge the strength of a class and how strong or weak they are.

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40 minutes ago, Ereliya-KT said:

I'm just trying to state that Crucible Spire is an awful way to gauge the strength of a class and how strong or weak they are.

How would you prefer to gauge it then? The data posted is what's available for everyone to see and doesn't rely on anecdotal evidence. The only way the data can be fudged is if hackers are in there skewing things, in which case you'd get visible outliers and they wouldn't be confined to a single class. I'd say it's a pretty good indication of how poorly balanced the classes are, which is the only statement that he's making.

Vandals were only recently released; that their median performance rivals classes that have been out for significantly longer (and probably better geared) is quite telling.

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Posted (edited)

Sorry for not being able to compile the statistics for the week ending 2019-10-09. Was rushing to get the weekly stuffs done as much as possible.

1 hour ago, Ereliya-KT said:

I mean maybe, since I am in the process of moving I haven't been able to run cruci and haven't checked on the ranks last week or yesterday, but normally I see 18 as the top for chanter maybe people got tired or had other things going on? I just feel like if he is talking about the vandal and strength comparing to other classes its better to get a wider range of data to avoid from making classes look like they are much worse, seeing as that is all most of the players will get from this post. Cruci is a how well your class can sustain while keeping up good dps so classes with high dps no sustain suffer as well as high sustain lower dps. So with that being said, I'm just trying to state that Crucible Spire is an awful way to gauge the strength of a class and how strong or weak they are.

Sorcerers, Spiritmasters, Clerics, and Vandal / Painters (lesser extent) have skills that deal damage through summoned NPCs (SM Pets, SummonSkillArea, SummonServant), with massive conditional % damage bonuses (+650%-900%) against Elyos Daeva and Asmodian Daeva. These are not mentioned in the in-game skill descriptions.

For some reason, Crucible Spire mobs are considered either Elyos Daeva or Asmodian Daeva (even if they don't look like such) thus these skills deal massive extra damage against them.

Notes:

  • These summoned pets do not have +100% PvE Attack (Classic Stat) that players do, so they effectively deal 3.75x damage (most SM pet attacks, Sorcerer SummonSkillArea spells) to 5x damage (Cleric servants).
  • Note: Vandal +10000 flat conditional damage bonus is not affected by Physical Attack.
  • Crucible Mobs are not considered Player Characters thus are not affected by the 200% PvP Damage Modifier on Vandal's summoned NPC attacks.
Edited by TheSecretCowLeve-KT

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18 minutes ago, TheSecretCowLeve-KT said:

Sorry for not being able to compile the statistics for the week ending 2019-10-09. Was rushing to get the weekly stuffs done as much as possible.

I understand, happens, there is a lot to do this patch.

@Forgotten-DN The thing is some classes have a much easier time in Crucible Spire because of the way its set up as well as things that the OP brought up I can tell you in full frostspark +15 with ulti attack stones and legendary crit I have much much higher stats than my vandal and my SM but the thing is like the OP just stated they have skills and such that give them dmg modifiers that idk why they work in cruci but they do. sure you could say oh your vandal out dps' you chanter because vandal is broken but my SM which there is no way can out dmg my chanter gets further in cruci spire than my chanter and my chanter is better than my SM in every possible way. Some classes are good for cruci and some i wont say are not but ill say they have a harder time pulling the higher performances.

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Posted (edited)

For the week ending 2019-10-09, 3 Vandals and 1 Spiritmaster cleared Floor 24. (around 0:00 server time on maintenance day)

For Vandals, one of their most overpowered skills is Chromatic Wrath, which deals 2326 physical damage every 0.35 seconds. That's like continuously spamming Chanter's Mountain Crash (2031 physical damage, 30s cooldown) at a rate 3 times per second!

Chanter's physical attack skills have low damage. Consider getting a Magic Attack set, activate Blessing of Wind, and start weaving right away...

Edited by TheSecretCowLeve-KT

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Lapis-DN   
7 hours ago, TheSecretCowLeve-KT said:

For the week ending 2019-10-09, 3 Vandals and 1 Spiritmaster cleared Floor 24. (around 0:00 server time on maintenance day)

For Vandals, one of their most overpowered skills is Chromatic Wrath, which deals 2326 physical damage every 0.35 seconds. That's like continuously spamming Chanter's Mountain Crash (2031 physical damage, 30s cooldown) at a rate 3 times per second!

Chanter's physical attack skills have low damage. Consider getting a Magic Attack set, activate Blessing of Wind, and start weaving right away...

I'm still trying to understand WHY THE HELL they nerfed a couple of chanter's skills back in 6.5
It is like they want this class to be the bottom tier of this game forever and we have to deal with it.

Except for 5.8 and 6.0 where chanters used to be god-like, the class have a very underwhelming performance across this 10-year game

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Lloro-DN   

I honestly think chanters are perfectly fine with this patch, it reminds me of how the class was balanced in past patches which is still quite powerful. Chanters were way overpowered in both 6.2 and 6.5 and hybrid classes in general are not intended to be top heals or top dps.

I personally stopped doing CS due to the fact support will not fix/acknowledge the Tide's Embrace buff issue that is occurring when transformations are reapplied, even after providing video evidence. This issue is specific to NA as we are the only region with reduced transformation times and Tide's Embrace was intended to match transformation times in all other regions. I have cleared floor 16 in dps spec quite a few times, EU has chanters that have cleared floor 21.

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Ele-DN   

Thats literally what the dps list is. Sw, temp, chanter on the bottom and sorc, sin, sm and such on the top. If spire wasn't timed, support classes would get to higher floors.

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On 10/3/2019 at 1:02 AM, TheSecretCowLeve-KT said:

See Spreadsheet

According to Crucible Spire leaderboards, Vandals / Painters are clearly overpowered.

 

IMO, we should look at the average rank to see which classes are overpowered. Because looking at the top floors, we are mainly looking at the p2w who are at the top rank mostly because they already have top notch stats.

When we loot at the averages, we see that Chanters and Templars are worst performing, because they dont have the dps while they are not geared, they pretty much require that top notch gear. AT and glads have derp AOEselfheal game, Clerics and sorcs have shit tons of dps and utility, it pretty much justifies their overall best performance, but there isnt that big of a gap among classes when you look at it.

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