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Look back at 6.0 from my perspective


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12 hours ago, Wrathchild-KT said:

This thread has all the reasons I went to WoW Shadowlands. Leveling was so entertaining , lots of cinematics and different mechanics.

Yessss! The boyfriend and I are playing WoW a lot these days, and we laugh/smile so much because the quests are so interesting. Like there was one at like level 12 or something in which you rode a huge bull, crashing into a bunch of mobs over and over. It was so stupid, but hilariously fun too. Also, there was one area where I accidentally attacked a tiny little chicken and suddenly 50 of his friends all jumped me and destroyed me in less than 2 seconds. I was shrieking and laughing. So dumb. But so entertaining.

Edited by Vantheria-DN
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Tell me, doctor, where are we going this time?
Is this the 50s, or 1999?
All I wanted to do was play my guitar and sing

So take me away, I don't mind
But you'd better promise me, I'll be back in time
Gotta get back in time

Don't bet your future, on one roll of the dice
Better remember, lightning never strikes twice
Please don't drive 88, don't wanna be late again

My classic favorite movie ^_^

Flying cars don't existed in 2015 same as Aion vision trailer never become real version of Aion.
But yeah now 2021 all classic is coming back just like yesterday once more

When I was young
I'd listen to the radio
Waitin' for my favorite songs
When they played I'd sing along
It made me smile

Those were such happy times
And not so long ago
How I wondered where they'd gone
But they're back again
Just like a long lost friend
All the songs I loved so well

When they get to the part
Where he's breakin' her heart
It can really make me cry
Just like before
It's yesterday once more

Yep Aion classic yesterday once more heh :D
Sorry for posting an unrelated post to the topic but I think the songs explained this situation so well ;)

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People need to understand that these days a grindy MMORPG with subscription will not fly in the West. There's just no reason to make it a main focal point when there's many alternatives these days for cheaper price. Here's what's going to happen in my mind.

Exhibit A: Game is subscription mode, the game gains a huge influx of players because it's Classic server, over time, the population dwindles because there's nothing to do except grind til max lvl for some PvP. High levels rifting to kill low levels may cause drama (as it always did), people quit, they move on to something else.

In Korea, the sub is approx. $15 if I remember correctly, which is pretty steep compared to subscription games such as WoW and FFXIV, who offer a much wider content.

Exhibit B: Rather than subscription NCWest proceeds to do something similar to Aion EU/RU, with gold pack and/or Daeva Pass. The latter (Daeva Pass) is what keeps me curious whether it'll be something like Archepass from Archeage, where f2p players get "some" goodies, but the best things are given to people who pay.

Now what we need to see is how Korea plans to do overall with Aion Classic. Will they continue past 2.7? If yes, they might continue til 4.7. Problem is, there aren't many changes given to the core game, it's just a repeat from few years back, giving old content, but nothing new or exciting. If not, people will most likely not return to Live servers as it has nothing to offer to keep the player interested unless they just wish to throw their wallet at the game.

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Hi Kubei I would like to reply about business method that NC should considering at least in NA.

First I believed fundamental of MMO is people it's not about pvp or pve, even you solo playing you need people because you need to sell your loots to them or buy things you need from them, if there's no people would you like to craft scrolls,pots,food and hunting everything yourself ? That's too much works

Second everyone needs to understand Aion was designed to play with keyboard and mouse in mind even we had custom chain skills to simplified it's not enough because mechanics like weaving, jumpshot, slideshot it's very complex and hard to understand. I even believed auto attack should be adding a delay with if a skill is used. I'm not saying we should remove everything but anything that's too hard for people to do only few certain pro players can is not beneficial to the game.(Same concept as super hard instances that only 5% or fewer players can do it)

Elitism is not making money ,sure some people might hate newbies or bad players but without them you can't sell your items in broker no matter if it's pots or scrolls ,you don't have newbies you can't go out and solo pvp that you like but you will find another elite group instead who outnumbered you and does that make you happy ?

Now let's go back to NA I believed f2p is the best method for this region we can have some p2w but it needs not to be overpowered you suppose to pay for VIP but not to be a  god. We can have exp amulet but it needs to be untradable ,anything that boost craft, AP, drop must be completely untradable. Things that can be tradable should be no AP loss when died from enemy faction lasting a hour but can continuing use it, no soul sickness but for temporary with huge CDs so people will use it only when they needs not spam and please no exp events at all no godly OP gears from lv 1,don't rush people  to max level. Craft needs to be easier too don't make stupid proc within proc.

NCsoft themselves needs to accept too that PC games can not get to mobile level profit right now they need to be content not greed.
NCwest needs to behave themselves more than a puppet make decision on yourself.

Then maybe classic can be alive in NA.

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The solution is right there in their hands, all they have to do is re-implement the things they already implemented in the past and don't hurt having them. Anything about cosmetics, crafting, housing etc should simply be added. And then they should see how to make the game feel like having progress without sieving everything through rng.

7.x is p2w exclusive, even events revolve around it and apparently they make money so they think it is a success, they don't understand that when the normal players quit the game the elite p2w will simply have nobody to play with and thus the game dies with them.

My best advice would have been to have 2 servers, one f2p with the p2w that we have here and the other one to be subscription based and have limited to no p2w at all, except for cosmetics and conveniences.

BUT Just a f2p or a p2p model won't save a game that serves you sardines for breakfast. The game needs to be enjoyable. The game it self needs to be expanded, since 6.0 the only thing we see is destruction and/or retardification of the game and RNG being the driving force behind everything.

Think about it, to get the best pvp gear at the moment you have to grind and once you have the materials you GAMBLE to see if you got something useful, if not... then reset and start over! As for the best pvp accessories... you have to do pve exclusively.

Edited by Arhangelos-KT
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Hi I would like to add some comments to you statements.

It's true that p2p or f2p won't ultimately decide if the game will be successful or not.
It's depend on many factors but p2w(RNG, loot boxes, gamble) is a major factor to successful of the game there're many levels of p2w that people willing to accept and unacceptable at all (p2w is ok as long as you just be VIP getting a bit advantage over normal players but it's totally failure if p2w level made you a god)

When we talking about PC vs mobile we're actually talking about mouse/keyboard vs touch screen. I found it's impossible for me to play prolong MMO on mobile (non auto mode) it's boring especially if you have to hold your phone for long time and doing repetitive killing. Mobile is ok for quick games like Fortnite or PUBG. In my opinion mobile should not be anything but extension of main game in PC version (Like for selling/buying, check broker, mini games like card games, even housing and crafting is more acceptable than playing seriously do battle on it)

Only way to play mobile MMO seriously is auto mode.
Well but as they said only one purpose that a company served is making money. Doing anything against that is defeated their only purpose.

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Of course you never play an mmorpg on mobile with touch screen. Even on keyboard the amount of skills is insanely too many to use them all by keyboard and we have to click some skills. Touch screen is made for arcade games at best or non real time action games, like candy crush where you can take your time figuring the next move.

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Hi I would like to talk about Aion pre 6.0 era it may not related to the topic much but I think it worth to mentioned.

I'm currently wondering in p servers and I find some of servers (if not most) given eternal weapon (stormwing class) for lv 1 and lv 10 eternal armors (it doesn't matter that much). Problem with this is it made early all contents stupid it kinda foreseen how ultimate transform will treat everyone or mobs in the end game post 5.8 era. It would be better if they just nerfed mobs instead giving stupid OP gears that people shouldn't get it yet and make everyone think 19%/20% attack and cast speed is default speed in game. Negative thing of this ? New players won't need to use CC skills  no matter it's slow, reduce attack speed or silence because the weapon is so OP there's no need for control mobs but all they need is brute force. It's like using a nuclear warhead to kill an ant when you can just use  your finger to kill it or simply use a tissue paper to take it out(I know it's an extreme case but I believed you see how it goes 😛)

It's not really a problem if some people insisted to level fast and use brute force to play the game but it's really a problem when NC support this as the only way meant to be play I believed 50% attack speed limited should be remove including  modify boon of quickness -50% pvp damage to it. Boon of strength giving 100% of crit during duration (I believed vaziel wisdom buff will overwrite both buffs). It's kinda dull that it has been years and no progressing at all we still playing at same attack/cast speed(Unless you're p2w master who can get ultimate transform that can bypass speed cap)

People happy as long as there's a progress and the most noticeable progress is increasing of attack/cast speed. One hit KO from bosses shouldn't be anything but world raid boss. People going instances for items, gears, rewards they never go for dying in there and waste hours in stupid instances. Dying in world raid is much more fun because it's unpredictable(Even best templar with best gears should die from this hit too xD) and because a lot of people it made sure bosses can't kill all of us at once. Loot from world bosses should be something that mail to everybody for their performance like siege.

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Let me explain this world boss mechanics more, this boss will kills randomly from 10-30 players per time and this skill will happens more often as numbers of dead players increased there meaning you have to res dead players or you will be next target ,and dead characters can't stay dead or they will get no rewards or worst rewards during they do nothing. there will be minor AoEs too so dead characters need to be full heal or they dead again xD

If you solo and think you can get best rewards and survive this you're wrong. So yep I think this is great fun.

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I was wondering why mobile is selling a lot more greater than PC/Console counterpart and I found a few facts, first not everyone owned PC/Console but everyone by now have a mobile phone there're like 7 billions people on this Earth if you make assumption only 0.001%(I think the number should be greater) playing mobile games that's that's 7 millions people playing mobile games, let say if certain players keep paying to kill new players/free players and they quitting everyday it would take 19 years for everyone to quit. So yep unless someone seriously regulate loot boxes(Which extremely hard to do because huge money involved in it) in mobile games.

The problem isn't because it's mobile the problem is because everyone have it. I'm viewing p2w is nothing more you use real money to bully people in a form of free games.
This is something more than a community can do it needs governments to regulate it.

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2 hours ago, Nalariel-KT said:

I was wondering why mobile is selling a lot more greater than PC/Console counterpart

Because mobiles as you said are readily available and rather cheap but most importantly portable. Those games are also made for mobiles hence they do not have the best graphics nor does anyone expect them to run at 4k 120fps.

The newest generation is used to touch screen games, they cannot differentiate so much the games when it comes to input. Their first gaming experience is probably on tablets or the old smartphone of their parents so they are kinda used to them.

I've played Unicorn Attack on my mobile and it needs 2 inputs, the jump and the dash. I can't play anything else, i am too bored to try playing mobile games because I know for fact their input will be very limited or not user friendly. I also never buy anything on games, but many people don't mind micro transactions which are those that actually generate a ton of revenue and make the games live longer since more people play them instead of quitting.

Look at aion, people need to pay hundreds of $$ to even be competitive, the new generation won't bother. They'd rather play a mobile game, spend 2~3$ on some additional ingame coins or a skin and play the game while on bus towards school or university.

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On 3/11/2021 at 8:14 PM, Nalariel-KT said:

Can live version be fixed ?

I think the current version is too far gone. The whole game now reeks of freemium garbage. To improve it they would need to completely revamp the game and change entire systems of gear, speeds and other mechanics. It would take more care and consideration than we should ever expect from NCSoft. I doubt the Korean devs would even bother with that work and effort for 7.X when they could just add more low-effort micropay features and focus on classic instead. Look at how dead Korea's 7.X version is compared to their classic version - classic gets over 10x the amount of players 7.X gets. 7.X+ is a lost cause at this point.

 

On 3/12/2021 at 11:39 AM, Vinley-KT said:

The game mechanics have been butchered down to constant button smashing. When I watch current Aion, I no longer see the tamed aggression that made Aion such a high skill cap game; I see two players smashing skill after skill, without weaving, putting out insane damage numbers. [snip]

The P2W is obviously insane. There's too much gear expansion, and because of that there's too much stat bloating. There's no way to stay competitive without spending huge amounts of money. That's because there's too many things to increase stats from. 4.0 was a P2W patch, mostly due to only temperings, which were actually not too bad to achieve because at least you could farm back then. Now? There's like 10 mechanics worse than temperings, and there seems to be no end in sight. When I look at the amount of "buff-able" gear in Aion, I literally see the same predatory bullshit I find in mobile games.

Before I quit there was one thing I noticed; there were a LOT of unimaginably bad players. I think a lot of that was due to, like you said, the speed leveling addiction. How can you go from Lv1-80 in  24hrs, in a game this deep and expect to know what you're doing? It took the best players months, years even, to master their class; you're not even giving players the chance to learn with speed leveling culture...

From tamed aggression to button smashing sounds like a perfect way to describe what Aion's pvp has become. The damage numbers themselves aren't all that insane though with how high HP is now - I think it has more to do with attack rates. Ultimate xforms watered down the game's pvp. With an ultimate transform everyone runs at 12.0 speed and attacks/casts faster than ever. Debuffs slowing run/attack/cast speeds aren't as effective as they used to be. They also destroyed skillful mechanics that used to separate good players from bad players. Weaving is outdated. Slideshotting is outdated. Many stationary skills have become mobile. Cooldowns have been lowered for every class. Why even think twice about wasting cooldowns when they're all up again in like 40 seconds? Almost feels like you might as well just throw your whole skillbar when you can. All of this combines to create a meta leaning more on chain-spamming rather than timing or counter-play. 

It's also kinda funny thinking back to how people used to say 4.0 was P2W with temperings. Look how far we've come! Spending like 100 or 200 bucks to temper your accs is nothing compared to what you have to pay for now to stay max geared and competitive. Imagine how elated the current playerbase would be if the most P2W thing was only a couple hundred bucks. Back when I played 7.0 there were plenty of horror stories of players spending thousands just to attempt an ulti xform. It's not even just about money too - the amount of farming you have to do nowadays to keep up with gear is ridiculous. And the RNG associated with obtaining every little thing now is disgusting. You have players farming for weeks or even months just to get the right lootbox piece, the right skill skin, the right transform. No wonder the game is dying and it's all the same people left. How can the game even attract new/returning players when it takes so much just to catch up? It takes this much patience just to get back into pvping on a game this dead? Who tf has the time? The sh*t the remaining playerbase puts up with now... lmao. 

And on the speed leveling thing...1-80 in 24hrs sounds a bit long. I remember that it took my friend about 5 hours to level my character from 1-80 for me back in 6.2. He even told me it would have been 4 hours if he didn't waste time AFKing the weekly luna for 0 xp. https://i.imgur.com/oFTeg6J.jpg 
Also at this point in time I don't think people need to experience slow leveling to learn their class. Especially with Aion classic. It's all been said and done before - all the knowledge and guidance on these old patches you could possibly need is out there on youtube, streams, old aion info pages etc. Many of those old best players have long been surpassed. Leveling is unnecessary in terms of learning for pvp; the time leveling would be better spent doing long duel sessions, training arenas, actual pvp. But I do think Aion should have a slower leveling process. Let the game feel more like a MMO. Give players time to enjoy some early game content and feel a sense of achievement/value with their characters when reaching max level.

in summary:  current Aion bad, bring classic pls, ty 

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I don't know which one is more lost cause between USA now or Aion NA o_O

People ready to take an easy way and take extreme violent to solve even a tiny problem.
Talking understanding comparison what others need isn't even relevant anymore. No one care what other people feeling as long as they got what they wanted.

You know p2w is indirectly result from "I don't care about anyone I'll pay cause it's my money even whole game will die as long as I feeling pleasure from doing so"
You can't blame only NCsoft for this happening it's us too players that driven the game to this state from selfishness and greed.

I don't see @Kibbelz reply regularly like he was when he was new anymore.
People rarely appreciated what he did and keep cursing him for same thing over and over.

You know  @Kibbelz can't change anything by simply send report to his superior there're much much chain of command before final decision to be made. The one who made decision ain't even listening to the complaining they just said no and gone. I'm not saying I'm content with the result NCsoft gave us. But I do appreciated that at least someone listened to us and actually try something even it's failed.

Maybe something needs to be broken people won't realized what they had until it already gone and lost forever.

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@Nalariel-KT Sorry for the decreased interactivity recently. Internally, I've actually scaled-up on increasing community involvement as we've gotten more teams interested in Aion's sentiment. I'll make it a point to share more of when I'm reading through these threads ;)

 

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11 hours ago, Kibbelz said:

@Nalariel-KT Sorry for the decreased interactivity recently. Internally, I've actually scaled-up on increasing community involvement as we've gotten more teams interested in Aion's sentiment. I'll make it a point to share more of when I'm reading through these threads ;)

 

Maybe you could start by reading your messages.

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On 3/19/2021 at 12:17 PM, wasa said:

From tamed aggression to button smashing sounds like a perfect way to describe what Aion's pvp has become. The damage numbers themselves aren't all that insane though with how high HP is now - I think it has more to do with attack rates. Ultimate xforms watered down the game's pvp. With an ultimate transform everyone runs at 12.0 speed and attacks/casts faster than ever. Debuffs slowing run/attack/cast speeds aren't as effective as they used to be. They also destroyed skillful mechanics that used to separate good players from bad players. Weaving is outdated. Slideshotting is outdated. Many stationary skills have become mobile. Cooldowns have been lowered for every class. Why even think twice about wasting cooldowns when they're all up again in like 40 seconds? Almost feels like you might as well just throw your whole skillbar when you can. All of this combines to create a meta leaning more on chain-spamming rather than timing or counter-play. 

 

Literally nailed exactly my opinion.

It's funny, I honestly believe that NC saw how well a few MMO's such as Tera and BDO got invigorated by console ports, and they internally tried to slowly move aion to the point where it could function on a controller. They've slowly combined hundreds of skills, created more chains and less individual abilities. Transforms were also a way to get rid of individual key binds, all your buffs that would traditionally be on scrolls, on one ability! In the end I think they finally realized there's no way in hell you could possibly simplify aion down to console playability. Sadly, what they failed to realize is that is always what made aion so special. They fell down the development rabbit hole trying to incorporate more broken, brainless mechanics from their attempt to casualize the game, and now it's unrecognizable. I don't say it lightly that I think aion was one of the highest skill cap games I've ever played. Not just mechanically, but simply from the amount of game knowledge you needed for every individual class. A lot of that knowledge was attained from YEARS of play and theory crafting. Players learning off of each other and each generation the average skill of players got better and better. How can you just turn around on all that knowledge and try to simplify it into a 10 button game overnight? Of course people are going to run for the hills.

Man, i'm still triggered by them combining massacre and dash attack... Like yeah, you utilize that combination sometimes... BUT YOU ALSO DONT LIKE 90% OF THE TIME WTF. That combination alone is what proved to me they were just trying to get enough key binds to run on a controller. Because there was literally zero reason to ever do that.

Then, like you said, it got to this speed leveling garbage that didn't even give new players the chance to learn their own abilities as they unlocked them, let alone get to the point where they can function in pvp. Aion is no longer even an MMO. The early and mid game is just plain gone. That would have been fine if they kept the game in a state where it could actually sustain players.. But rightfully, everyone quit in protest of the Russian roulette gameplay.

Even in Korea where Aion continued to maintain an operable status long after NA had died, is now left with 120 player servers... Like, damn...

13 hours ago, Kibbelz said:

@Nalariel-KT Sorry for the decreased interactivity recently. Internally, I've actually scaled-up on increasing community involvement as we've gotten more teams interested in Aion's sentiment. I'll make it a point to share more of when I'm reading through these threads ;)

 

Aion classic inc c/d? Can we at least know if it's being discussed internally at all?

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21 hours ago, Kibbelz said:

@Nalariel-KT Sorry for the decreased interactivity recently. Internally, I've actually scaled-up on increasing community involvement as we've gotten more teams interested in Aion's sentiment. I'll make it a point to share more of when I'm reading through these threads ;)

 

Hi @Kibbelz sorry for taking a long time for replying this  😜
It's a quite stressful week for me and I had to rest all entire day and also very boring.

I thought you won't reply me but I'm very glad you did thank you so much 🥰
Actually the situation about gaming right now is very sad, in pc games you're playing classic version of MMO or you just go mobile if you want new games.
Sad thing about gaming industry nowadays is nothing about playing at all it's all about paying and winning.

I said several times already if you only winning and never lose you're not playing a game you just pay to win to make you feel good.
@Vinley-KT made a very good point that Aion used to required skills and knowledge to win actually that sounds elitism but I'll resaying that if I can do something that gears and p2w ain't majority affected my performance I feel kind proud and accomplished something it gave me strength to fight and live in real world. I don't need to do insane DPS or anything I just need to do things myself and overcome my own fears.

So Aion was made with keyboard and mouse in mind I wish we can keep that tradition on Aion because this experience you can't get it on mobile counterpart. No need to holding phone for long time to enjoy the game is blessing for me. I know the change needs transition we can't change everything we want at once we need to convinced people who got authorize, complain and using cruel words won't change anyone mind but destructive our beloved game and in the end Aion will be a memory. A lot of people perfer to wait for classic to come but if we just wait and do nothing the incoming classic wouldn't be off in much better fate than live one now.

If Aion has to die for whatever reasons I'm willing to accept as long as we did try our best to change.
Ok that's too much like a producer letter 😂
I did suggested something to boost population up you might want to check it out @Kibbelz 😊
https://forums.aiononline.com/topic/8153-my-suggestion-to-add-some-life-to-live-server/

Ok thank you very much for reading I hope you will understand 😃

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 3/22/2021 at 1:10 PM, Kibbelz said:

@Nalariel-KT Sorry for the decreased interactivity recently. Internally, I've actually scaled-up on increasing community involvement as we've gotten more teams interested in Aion's sentiment. I'll make it a point to share more of when I'm reading through these threads ;)

 

Hi Kibblez,

Can one of the things you discuss with them being adding just a few things to the game that are NOT RNG? I totally understand the need for it in a free game, keep people spending money and time trying to get the bets possible result.  But over time it has become so bloated that there there are hardly any rewards that come just by grdining and earning your way.

Granted when I started in 1.5 the game was entirely different.  You worked. You grinded, you bought your gear,  Sure you had the RNG of manastones and enchanting, but you could aim for the gear you wanted and earn it.  With RNG, you may grind Timeless every night for a year and never get a full set of the new gear.

I don't mind a long grind if I know in the end I will achieve a goal.  The unfinished weapon is an example of the frustration.  Even if you do it the quick and dirty way byt buying the weapon from broker, buying weapons to disenchant, grinding out the exp, enchanting to 15 not once but twice.... you still could get to the very end and just get another +10 to try again.  I can't imagine what a bummer that would be to someone who grinded out the resources and kinah to enchant it, only to have that happen.

It's a mega feels bad

Like I said I totally get there needs to be some RNG.  But fi they could give us SOME control over our destinies that would be so so incredible.

Thank you for listening! ♥

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On 3/12/2021 at 11:14 AM, Nalariel-KT said:

Hi after I experienced a lot in private classic servers.

If we removed all bad p2w ,RNG from it and make it farmable in open world it's not actually a bad patch at all.
My anti live version was mainly from skins and removed all NPCs that related to skins + horrible shop + too fast leveling going 80 felt so empty. In fact people in classic servers do not care about quests or anything at all they all rushed with exp amulet and level in instances someone crazy enough to make 1-65 in 6 hours some might even crazier but I don't know about that. My thought is exp amulet from shop/premium account and exp you got from instances is what pretty much destroyed Aion classic. We shouldn't rush at all but should enjoying the game along the way (Imagine you ride a train from west to east coast take a couple days and enjoy everything vs use teleport device teleport you from west to east in 3 seconds and said it was so boring). Maybe it was the game design itself and make all contents that before max level useless. So yep NC is pretty much understand this and make everyone level to 80 super easy in 6.0 without know what to do or need gears(Why you need Vertron , Elten , Theo or other maps if you never care for them but rush).

Speed run culture from streamers affected how we play the game greatly. I think if exp amulet or exp event didn't existed but instead boost amulet that increased kinah, AP ,coins from quests would be better options first you don't need super hard leveling like 5.0 did ,make people questing mainly instead rush rush and solo instance for exp. Open world playing is better than instances any day any time.

So decision to delete maps in 6.0 I think it's pretty understandable because it's us players who never care anything but end game content support that decision.
Remove skins,NPCs that related to, make BCM dull is not justify by any means it's just plainly stupid including forcing people pay for normal appearance which I think it's not even 6.0 designers decision.

Unified scrolls(Transform) + variant skills to choose is brilliant idea only bad thing is too much RNG ,it would be ok if everything can farm via quests ,craft and open world like classic era but unfortunately it didn't.

Can live version be fixed ? It can if everything basic stuff can be farm in open world and quests and safe enough not be camp by you opponents.

no one cares about your perspective

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