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If you were in charge of the 6.0 class rebalance, how would you go about it?

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I feel that rather than nerf any of the classes in the game, they should enhance the defences of all physical classes.  It's ridiculous that magic classes are OP over physical classes.  Also, nerf the FTS servers and move all to the standard servers.  Leveling up is already very fast, so there's no need for FTS, and low level players can get a toggle to disable PVP up to a certain level.  Also, make rifting mandatory in that when rifting times are up, all players of the particular faction gets transported over to the other faction's territories and disabling teleports and return scrolls to prevent players from taking the easy way out.  This will make PVP more inclusive and fun.

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19 hours ago, Arceot-KT said:

I'm a little nervous about how they're going to deal with songweavers, because when they nerfed gunners (which was needed, yes) everyone stopped playing that class, and if that happens with people leaving songweavers we could have a problem with mana. I feel like NCsoft should focus on songweaver's defense and cc skills rather than trying to lower their damage. (or, ya know, change mana to how it used to be so everyone isn't so reliant on songweavers)

Except that mana can be managed, and was managed before songweavers ever existed. Additionally, the majority of SW don't heal mana, in PVE or PVP, so meh. Personally, I get mana drained in PVP and almost invariably,the SW will not mana heal.

Hopefully, class changes to SW will focus more on their utility, to bring them more in line with being a magical  version of a chanter. If they decide to go DPS, then reduce their shields, and their dispel.

 

2 hours ago, 1s15DA70-KT said:

I feel that rather than nerf any of the classes in the game, they should enhance the defences of all physical classes.  It's ridiculous that magic classes are OP over physical classes.  Also, nerf the FTS servers and move all to the standard servers.  Leveling up is already very fast, so there's no need for FTS, and low level players can get a toggle to disable PVP up to a certain level.  Also, make rifting mandatory in that when rifting times are up, all players of the particular faction gets transported over to the other faction's territories and disabling teleports and return scrolls to prevent players from taking the easy way out.  This will make PVP more inclusive and fun.

Yes, I've heard that templars are weak, let's buff them again. Really??? and you're saying that sorcs are OP over sins (for example)?

Finally, let's NOT boot everyone over to the other factions' territory because you want to rift. That boneheaded idea would just have half the server AFK in Panda or Sanctum.  People who want to rift will do so, forcing people to do it won't make them enjoy it, they'll just resent it and probably quit.

Edited by 5s25C407-DN

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Sunix-DN   
5 hours ago, 1s15DA70-KT said:

I feel that rather than nerf any of the classes in the game, they should enhance the defences of all physical classes.  It's ridiculous that magic classes are OP over physical classes.  Also, nerf the FTS servers and move all to the standard servers.  Leveling up is already very fast, so there's no need for FTS, and low level players can get a toggle to disable PVP up to a certain level.  Also, make rifting mandatory in that when rifting times are up, all players of the particular faction gets transported over to the other faction's territories and disabling teleports and return scrolls to prevent players from taking the easy way out.  This will make PVP more inclusive and fun.

holy bullsh*t.

If you want to rift, just take one. Don't make other ppl do the nyerk you want to do.

Also, I don't think NCsoft wants to ressurect low level pvp/twinking. Level cap is going to 80 so endgame will be the focus again. Get used to it

tks

Edited by Sunix-DN

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6 hours ago, 1s15DA70-KT said:

I feel that rather than nerf any of the classes in the game, they should enhance the defences of all physical classes.  It's ridiculous that magic classes are OP over physical classes.  Also, nerf the FTS servers and move all to the standard servers.  Leveling up is already very fast, so there's no need for FTS, and low level players can get a toggle to disable PVP up to a certain level.  Also, make rifting mandatory in that when rifting times are up, all players of the particular faction gets transported over to the other faction's territories and disabling teleports and return scrolls to prevent players from taking the easy way out.  This will make PVP more inclusive and fun.

No thanks to removing FTS. It's in place for a reason, and that reason almost caused this game an early exit here in NA. Leave it as is. Also, nothing says "fun" like forcing players to do something they really dont wanna do, amirite? Mandatory rifting sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. Have we not learned anything since launch NA?

Besides, if NC's primary goal is to get players to end cap asap, why would they then make that trip to said max level both lonely AND frustrating again? Low level rifts simply dont work. That is, other than to entertain trollish uber geared twinks at the expense of lowbie newbs just trying to get a feel for the game.

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FTS was added post-rift buffs, which destroyed rifting anyway. Its primary purpose is and was to provide a place for all the lowbies to level together...and level quickly to where the devs want the players (end-game). 

They're not getting rid of it, nor are they adding mandatory rifting. 

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Isara-DN   

My dream would be involving the chanter and SW.

Chanters

1: Give Chanter its magical buffs back into its mantra.

2. Increase the range of the mantras and other buffs.

3. Change heal burst to a heal over time. Higher upfront heal with lower heal over time than recovery.

4. increase the heal of word of revival

Why: Most of the heals with Chanters are HoT and single target.  Changing HB to HoT keeps with the theme and would allow the Chanter to heal and go back to DPSing. Increasing WoR also makes sense as HoT and single target Chanters should reign King.

SW:

1. SW heals should be reduced and changed to AOE.  CoB should remain single target.

2.  Its buffs should be reduced or removed.

3. Needs a mass revival similar to cleric.

4. Maybe better dispel (not sure on this one but it would relieve a lot of pressure from clerics in pvp)

Why: When I think of SW I think of a concert filled with people.  Everyone benefits from music not just one.  Thus the AOE heals.  Removal of buffs is 2 fold.  Buffs should remain with chanter and SW should be the mana battery and help with revivals or dispels.  It would separate the job from the chanter and have them more clear cut. 

 

The combo would fit better in groups (IMO) as clerics are great AOE and single target while chanter and SW are more like a split cleric with one single target and the other AOE.  Finding groups could also be easier as SW and Chanter together could heal through most pve esp if clerics are being difficult to find.

 

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4 minutes ago, Isara-DN said:

My dream would be involving the chanter and SW.

Chanters

1: Give Chanter its magical buffs back into its mantra.

2. Increase the range of the mantras and other buffs.

3. Change heal burst to a heal over time. Higher upfront heal with lower heal over time than recovery.

4. increase the heal of word of revival

Why: Most of the heals with Chanters are HoT and single target.  Changing HB to HoT keeps with the theme and would allow the Chanter to heal and go back to DPSing. Increasing WoR also makes sense as HoT and single target Chanters should reign King.

SW:

1. SW heals should be reduced and changed to AOE.  CoB should remain single target.

2.  Its buffs should be reduced or removed.

3. Needs a mass revival similar to cleric.

4. Maybe better dispel (not sure on this one but it would relieve a lot of pressure from clerics in pvp)

Why: When I think of SW I think of a concert filled with people.  Everyone benefits from music not just one.  Thus the AOE heals.  Removal of buffs is 2 fold.  Buffs should remain with chanter and SW should be the mana battery and help with revivals or dispels.  It would separate the job from the chanter and have them more clear cut. 

 

The combo would fit better in groups (IMO) as clerics are great AOE and single target while chanter and SW are more like a split cleric with one single target and the other AOE.  Finding groups could also be easier as SW and Chanter together could heal through most pve esp if clerics are being difficult to find.

 

For SW, (1) makes no sense -  SW can roll heal spec already, and we have clerics and chanters, for (3) we already have clerics, why duplicate them? and 4 (4) HELL NO. Songweavers have CC , dispels, debuffs and heals and DPS. They need to give up something. They aren't just "like asingle cleric", they're like a cleric, a sorc and and and SM.

We already have a cleric class, we already have a sorc and an SM,  I'd see them as a magical chanter- that means mana heals, middle of the road DPS and magic based utility skills. If they role DPS, they have minimal (probably 1) heal, max 1 cc skill, no dispel.If the roll support spec, then they get more  dispels, much lower DPS,  and utility - shields for the party that complement a chanter's shields.

 

 

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Isara-DN   

Im not sure if I was clear or you didnt actually read my post.

To clear things up I was talking about the support chain for both chanter and SW not DPS chain. I could give a fracking freak about the DPS tree.

The game is lacking in any AOE healer class save for Cleric.  Chanter and SW as of now are both practically single target.  Making SW an AOE support healer and Chanter single target support healer distinguishes the roles makes them unique and have better synergy as one makes up for the weakness in the other.

Only class capable of mass revival right now is cleric.  SW would be a great class to help Cleric with revivals.  I would balance it with removing all group buffs from the SW.  I would also remove a lot of their healing boost.

 Basically I want to split the cleric into two classes.  One class for group buffs, single target HoT healing,and shields (chanter).  The other having low healing power but heals are AOE, mana battery, revives (SW).  This would take pressure off the clerics

What you want is a magic chanter (which is basically what we have now).  I want distinguished classes that fill different roles in groups.

Yes SW DPS is way to high for a support class and needs to be lowered.

To make this clear Chanter and SW will be support healing and no way have the same healing power as a cleric.

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57 minutes ago, Isara-DN said:

Im not sure if I was clear or you didnt actually read my post.

To clear things up I was talking about the support chain for both chanter and SW not DPS chain. I could give a fracking freak about the DPS tree.

The game is lacking in any AOE healer class save for Cleric.  Chanter and SW as of now are both practically single target.  Making SW an AOE support healer and Chanter single target support healer distinguishes the roles makes them unique and have better synergy as one makes up for the weakness in the other.

Only class capable of mass revival right now is cleric.  SW would be a great class to help Cleric with revivals.  I would balance it with removing all group buffs from the SW.  I would also remove a lot of their healing boost.

 Basically I want to split the cleric into two classes.  One class for group buffs, single target HoT healing,and shields (chanter).  The other having low healing power but heals are AOE, mana battery, revives (SW).  This would take pressure off the clerics

What you want is a magic chanter (which is basically what we have now).  I want distinguished classes that fill different roles in groups.

Yes SW DPS is way to high for a support class and needs to be lowered.

To make this clear Chanter and SW will be support healing and no way have the same healing power as a cleric.

I read what you wrote, we happen to disagree on some points.

Almost no one runs the support chain for SW, maybe 10% of SW do, I've seen a few really, really good ones. 

You want to provide another class for group loci, I disagree as  (a) I don't see the need and , more importantly, I see that as being what makes clerics distinct- they have strong AOE/group heals and revival skills - you just said that you want 'distinguised classes that fill different roles in groups". - well that's what clerics do.The cleric split that you're talking about already existed for years, it's called a chanter. They are very good in providing the support you're talking about. A  heal spec SW with solo revives and mana healing plus some group utility shields r and specific party buffs that differ from a chanter would be what a  heal-spec SW brings.

 

it will be interesting, depending upon what (if anything, because I am REALLY skeptical)  SW decide to play if NC changes their playstyle, if some roll heal spec, or if they quit en masse. I believe a lot of them would just quit or pick whatever they think is the next FOTM class.

 

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I didn't read it all but if SW's Inspiration also increase cast/attack speed 5% for 15 seconds for 30 sec cd would be cool too :)

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8 hours ago, 5s25C407-DN said:

Except that mana can be managed, and was managed before songweavers ever existed. Additionally, the majority of SW don't heal mana, in PVE or PVP, so meh. Personally, I get mana drained in PVP and almost invariably,the SW will not mana heal.

Hopefully, class changes to SW will focus more on their utility, to bring them more in line with being a magical  version of a chanter. If they decide to go DPS, then reduce their shields, and their dispel.

Before songweavers it was really easy to manage mana, obviously it was never an issue, but after they added songweavers Ncosft also upped mana usage so they became very desired. And of course people CAN manage without songweavers because it would be idiotic to make them required in every group, but that doesn't mean its easy. For example, when my friend started playing cleric they always asked me to go on songweaver with them because they weren't used to the cycle and they didn't want to run out of mana. (especially since some bosses have skills that take away all your mana). Along with that, I'm rarely in a party where the sw doesn't heal mana so I cant really relate to what you're saying but ANYWAY yeah i agree with the second part. Ncsoft made songweaver's the "jack of all trades", except they left out the "master of none" part. They really need to pick a side for them. 

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1 hour ago, 1s3424E4-KT said:

Before songweavers it was really easy to manage mana, obviously it was never an issue, but after they added songweavers Ncosft also upped mana usage so they became very desired. And of course people CAN manage without songweavers because it would be idiotic to make them required in every group, but that doesn't mean its easy. For example, when my friend started playing cleric they always asked me to go on songweaver with them because they weren't used to the cycle and they didn't want to run out of mana. (especially since some bosses have skills that take away all your mana). Along with that, I'm rarely in a party where the sw doesn't heal mana so I cant really relate to what you're saying but ANYWAY yeah i agree with the second part. Ncsoft made songweaver's the "jack of all trades", except they left out the "master of none" part. They really need to pick a side for them. 

well, it's definitely easier now  for some classes actually than when SW first came out, however I  agree that mana heals are a core part of SW and I don't see NC ever removing it. That doesn't mean that they're a walking mana pot, but NC could introduce some boss mechanics or keep mana drain in PVP, so that mana healing is more important and more challenging.

Edited by 5s25C407-DN

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Bryos-DN   

I actually dont remember any instance or boss that relied on MP draining after IS (except for Fleshgolem mobs in AoE, which dont count). Would be interesting to see it being used more often.

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Ehila-KT   
On 12/30/2017 at 7:37 AM, 5s25C407-DN said:

Except that you do have talents, if invested properly then heals shouldn't be an issue. In addition, there are not one but 2 support classes. If a bard/chanter isn't brain dead they should be coordinating  (supporting) with you. The chances of you're not having one of the two in a group now are fairly low.

If you run solo or solo heal, then again, there's a good thread in the class forum where the clerics discuss the CP talents. Even on my poorly geared cleric, it hasn't been an issue.

My point was that it was a double layer of investment. 
It used to be i could heal reasonably well in pvp while still having a dps spec, it wasnt as good, but now its light and day.  The whole Essence system  screws over any atempt at hybridisation or dps specs for support or heal class's since most of your surviability is in those heals.

On 12/30/2017 at 7:37 AM, 5s25C407-DN said:

Except that you do have talents, if invested properly then heals shouldn't be an issue. In addition, there are not one but 2 support classes. If a bard/chanter isn't brain dead they should be coordinating  (supporting) with you. The chances of you're not having one of the two in a group now are fairly low.

If you run solo or solo heal, then again, there's a good thread in the class forum where the clerics discuss the CP talents. Even on my poorly geared cleric, it hasn't been an issue.

My point was that it was a double layer of investment. 
It used to be i could heal reasonably well in pvp while still having a dps spec, it wasnt as good, but now its light and day.  The whole Essence system  screws over any atempt at hybridisation or dps specs for support or heal class's since most of your surviability is in those heals.

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On 1/1/2018 at 3:33 AM, Ehila-KT said:

My point was that it was a double layer of investment. 
It used to be i could heal reasonably well in pvp while still having a dps spec, it wasnt as good, but now its light and day.  The whole Essence system  screws over any atempt at hybridisation or dps specs for support or heal class's since most of your surviability is in those heals.

My point was that it was a double layer of investment. 
It used to be i could heal reasonably well in pvp while still having a dps spec, it wasnt as good, but now its light and day.  The whole Essence system  screws over any atempt at hybridisation or dps specs for support or heal class's since most of your surviability is in those heals.

The fact that you can't be an effective group healer in DPS spec as a cleric is quite balanced imo, otherwise the game would be quite imbalanced. The Essence system isn't screwing anything over  chain, in fact it has benefited chain quite a bit  since it makes higher survivability through healing boost, MR and HP. 

DPS spec was never really intended to replace a heal spec cleric for PVP, and a while hybrid specs did have their place with the introduction of new classes the game has evolved.

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I'm feeling that MR will get another nerf :D

MR decrease heal boost by 0.1 per 1 MR (2000MR = -200 Heal Boost) or something like that.

Healing freely and not getting hit is unfair.

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8 minutes ago, Neleth-KT said:

I'm feeling that MR will get another nerf :D

MR decrease heal boost by 0.1 per 1 MR (2000MR = -200 Heal Boost) or something like that.

Healing freely and not getting hit is unfair.

Or just reduce base healing on all skills and reintroduce more powerful healing boost manastones.

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1 minute ago, mooMOOMooMoomoo-KT said:

Or just reduce base healing on all skills and reintroduce more powerful healing boost manastones.

Then we have to reduce damage of mobs lv 1-75 too :|

 

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Just now, Neleth-KT said:

Then we have to reduce damage of mobs lv 1-75 too :|

 

The healing boost stones should be buffed to the point such that, if all available manastones are socketed with them, they will compensate for the reduced base healing of skills.

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8 minutes ago, mooMOOMooMoomoo-KT said:

The healing boost stones should be buffed to the point such that, if all available manastones are socketed with them, they will compensate for the reduced base healing of skills.

So hypothetically, a DPS cleric could switch to a heal boost set in PVP?  nope

I would rather have this balanced via skills than through manastones, in any cases, we're getting reduced manastones on equipment in future- so I don't think your idea would work anyway.

 

 

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Impose casting times for equipping and unequipping gear. These actions will have 100% interruption rate when you take damage. Additionally these actions cannot be used in combat.

Changing equipment sets would mean taking several seconds to change armor piece one by one, and stops if you take damage in combat.

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3 hours ago, mooMOOMooMoomoo-KT said:

Impose casting times for equipping and unequipping gear. These actions will have 100% interruption rate when you take damage. Additionally these actions cannot be used in combat.

Changing equipment sets would mean taking several seconds to change armor piece one by one, and stops if you take damage in combat.

that would be worst than using a macro :S

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6 hours ago, DevilNest-KT said:

that would be worst than using a macro :S

Using the change equipment set will still be the best way to change equipment sets, as using function should not cause gear pieces already equipped as part of the set to be unequipped and reequipped.

Using a macro can give you a possibility of leaving you with a few pieces of gear unequipped, for example, if your macro changes 5 pieces of equipment, you were able to 3 pieces of equipment before getting interrupted, and then activate the macro again, that macro would end up unequipping 3 pieces and equipping the other 2 pieces of armor. You will also have to use /delay x command to account for the cast time needed to unequip and reequip each piece of gear.

Macros also doesn't work if two different armor pieces have the exact same name.

Edited by mooMOOMooMoomoo-KT

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