Still lame no skill pvp in the game?

[Rinkusan-KT]

18 minutes ago, SacrificialPower-SL said:

I don't need to. Don't mean I'm wrong. You can look it up. I doubt you will understand it anyway.

Wow you really are delusional. I didn't just pass it off as false. So you are wrong about that.

"The listener assumes you are wrong based on your motive or person", which is exactly what you are doing as far as I know.

"Not your reasoning or evidence", you may have provided "evidence", but it served the purpose of trying to verify your Bulverism.

I didn't say that or mean that, and wrong fallacy you are thinking of there. I even gave you a hint with the Bulverism comment.

Because you are appearing to commit Argument By Fallacy. We are grown ups and we all know should know what is valid or not. 

That doesn't even matter in slightest bit, even if I did commit a fallacy, which you have still failed to point out correctly.

I wasn't even arguing against your statement by saying you were delusional, I even implied it. By the way, you are delusional, did I say that already? This is exactly why no one wants to reply to your trashy comments, because you just derail and don't even consider what people are saying or even why they are saying it.

Um yea? I just said that. You even listening? Do I need to take back what I said about you being delusional and up you a crazy? Get your p's and q's right before talking to me.

First off, no one in this thread said that Rinkusan. A P2W Wall isn't even what is being talked about. Second, nothing is really locked behind a P2W wall.

"I don't need to. Don't mean I'm wrong"

And just like that, you've shown everyone that you don't know how to make an argument. You can even flip that around: "Sacrificial doesn't need to prove anything. Doesn't mean he's right." You make a claim; you'd better give evidence. Simple as that. You can't expect people to take your word for it

"you may have provided "evidence", but it served the purpose of trying to verify your Bulverism."

So what you're saying is that I'm a Bulverist for using evidence to support my claim...

"Because you are appearing to commit Argument By Fallacy. We are grown ups and we all know should know what is valid or not."

Coming from someone who's accusing me of being delusional, this is one of the most unrealistic statements I've ever read. If all grown-ups knew what was "valid or not", world peace would be a thing by now. Grown-ups disagree, but many know how to disagree without resorting to personal attacks, logical fallacies, and genuine hostility. You could learn a thing or two from them.

"which is exactly what you are doing as far as I know."

No. It's not. I even mentioned in a previous post that I have no idea who you are.

"Um yea? I just said that. You even listening? Do I need to take back what I said about you being delusional and up you a crazy? Get your p's and q's right before talking to me."

I think your reading comprehension needs some work. Let me try to simplify it for you. Argument by Fallacy = assuming a claim is wrong just because your reasoning had some fallacies. Your claim AND reasoning has fallacies. I am not jumping to the conclusion that your claim is wrong just because your post is riddled with lack of evidence and terrible reading comprehension. I am saying that you are wrong because your claim itself is a fallacy. More specifically, your claim is Bulverism in a nutshell. Even MORE specifically, this statement is Bulverism in a nutshell: "It shows evidence for the claim you are delusional which is useful in knowing when reading your comments."

I hope you can understand this because I don't see a way of simplifying it any further.

"I'm going to post this again since you are ignoring it. It's the only thing actual important thing I contributed to this conversation about P2W."

I didn't realize you expected me to reply to this considering the fact that it isn't relevant to what I'm arguing in the first place. I even said earlier in the thread that the game still has p2w elements, but that this patch is the least p2w out of all the 5.0 patches. Since you're implying that your post was a reply to one of my posts, tell me, what is your point here?

"First off, no one in this thread said that Rinkusan. A P2W Wall isn't even what is being talked about. Second, nothing is really locked behind a P2W wall."

It wasn't outright stated, but it was implied. I said that 75ap gear was affordable. NotKorean said I was delusional. I asked him why. He didn't respond. So yes, that is what we're talking about. 

[GenericUser2180]

22 minutes ago, Rinkusan-SL said:

"I don't need to. Don't mean I'm wrong"

And just like that, you've shown everyone that you don't know how to make an argument. You can even flip that around: "Sacrificial doesn't need to prove anything. Doesn't mean he's right." You make a claim; you'd better give evidence. Simple as that. You can't expect people to take your word for it

You can look up what fallacies are. They have structure that isn't up for debate.

22 minutes ago, Rinkusan-SL said:

So what you're saying is that I'm a Bulverist for using evidence to support my claim...

Converse Error.

ie. p ⊃ q ≡ q ⊃ p is not correct.

22 minutes ago, Rinkusan-SL said:

"Because you are appearing to commit Argument By Fallacy. We are grown ups and we all know should know what is valid or not."

Coming from someone who's accusing me of being delusional, this is one of the most unrealistic statements I've ever read. If all grown-ups knew what was "valid or not", world peace would be a thing by now. Grown-ups disagree, but many know how to disagree without resorting to personal attacks, logical fallacies, and genuine hostility. You could learn a thing or two from them.

I'm sure you are able to stop being delusional, but so far you are proving me wrong with all this trash you write.

22 minutes ago, Rinkusan-SL said:

"which is exactly what you are doing as far as I know."

No. It's not. I even mentioned in a previous post that I have no idea who you are.

Are you saying you were absent from this conversation? You were not actually absent from this conversation, obviously. Would you like to say you are absent and not absent at the same time? That would be a contradiction.

22 minutes ago, Rinkusan-SL said:

"Um yea? I just said that. You even listening? Do I need to take back what I said about you being delusional and up you a crazy? Get your p's and q's right before talking to me."

I think your reading comprehension needs some work. Let me try to simplify it for you. Argument by Fallacy = assuming a claim is wrong just because your reasoning had some fallacies. Your claim AND reasoning has fallacies. I am not jumping to the conclusion that your claim is wrong just because your post is riddled with lack of evidence and terrible reading comprehension. I am saying that you are wrong because your claim itself is a fallacy. More specifically, your claim is Bulverism in a nutshell.

We aren't arguing about you being delusional making your argument invalid. That is just you being delusional.

22 minutes ago, Rinkusan-SL said:

"I'm going to post this again since you are ignoring it. It's the only thing actual important thing I contributed to this conversation about P2W."

I didn't realize you expected me to reply to this considering the fact that it isn't relevant to what I'm arguing in the first place. I even said earlier in the thread that the game still has p2w elements, but that this patch is the least p2w out of all the 5.0 patches. Since you're implying that your post was a reply to one of my posts, tell me, what is your point here?

Considering you quoted exactly what the post wasn't about, yeah I can see that. If you are talking about the quote bubble content in that post, it is relevant. I simply explained the problem of P2W and what it is.

[Rinkusan-KT]

16 minutes ago, SacrificialPower-SL said:

You can look up what fallacies are. They have structure that isn't up for debate.

Converse Error.

ie. p ⊃ q ≡ q ⊃ p is not correct.

I'm sure you are able to stop being delusional, but so far you are proving me wrong with all this trash you write.

Are you saying you were absent from this conversation? You were not actually absent from this conversation, obviously. Would you like to say you are absent and not absent at the same time? That would be a contradiction.

We aren't arguing about you being delusional making your argument invalid. That is just you being delusional.

Considering you quoted exactly what the post wasn't about, yeah I can see that. If you are talking about the quote bubble content in that post, it is relevant. I simply explained the problem of P2W and what it is.

"You can look up what fallacies are. They have structure that isn't up for debate."

I agree. The fallacies themselves are pretty objective and straightforward, which is why I'm surprised you clearly don't understand what an ad hominem is.

"I'm sure you are able to stop being delusional, but so far you are proving me wrong with all this trash you write."

I love how you completely dodged the statement I quoted from you which was basically textbook-delusional. For someone who doesn't hesitate to accuse others of being delusional, you seem very insecure about your own world views

"Are you saying you were absent from this conversation?"

No. I'm saying I have no idea who you are. I've never met you, or at least I don't recall talking to you prior to today. You were accusing me of assuming you were in the wrong because of you as a person. I'm saying that's impossible because I don't know you.

"We aren't arguing about you being delusional making your argument invalid. That is just you being delusional."

How many times do I have to quote this statement, "It shows evidence for the claim you are delusional which is useful in knowing when reading your comments"? Honestly, it's rare that I get to meet someone so toxic and deluded that he forgets his own arguments.

[Rinkusan-KT]

"it is relevant. I simply explained the problem of P2W and what it is."

No, it's not. It's relevant to the thread, but it's not relevant to what I was talking about with NotKorean, and the post where you accused me of ignoring it implies that your p2w complaint was for me to respond. What's there to respond to if it has nothing to do with what I'm saying?

[Ergo-KT]

lmfao at claiming a lvl 72 4.8 geared cloth beat rinku and claiming to have video evidence and then not showing it because 'reasons'

 

I'm sure everyone believes that happened.

[Lolabye-DN]

Maybe it did

 

 

[Mempo-KT]

You can't call some players trash and then say there is no skill in the game. For the comparison of skilled and trash to exist you must first have observed polar opposites else there is no scale to model off of.
 

On 10/7/2017 at 7:46 AM, Rinkusan-SL said:

Honestly, it's rare that I get to meet someone so toxic and deluded that he forgets his own arguments.

Leave the house.

On 10/7/2017 at 7:18 AM, SacrificialPower-SL said:

You can look up what fallacies are. They have structure that isn't up for debate.

You post crap 60% of the time for the soul purpose of bloating your post count.


Bundles of sticks, both of you.

[DevilsShadow-DN]

Well after grinding to 68 I find the pvp to be kind of a joke unlike GW2 which by the way blows AION's pvp out of the water, and that I have played on a world stage. I was hoping that the pvp system would of changed to make it skill based less p2w and fun and at least a bit competitive. The only competition is to see who's got a fatter wallet and get their PVP gear months and months sooner than those that try and grind it out. 

[Plezurenpain-DN]

1 hour ago, DevilsShadow-DN said:

Well after grinding to 68 I find the pvp to be kind of a joke unlike GW2 which by the way blows AION's pvp out of the water, and that I have played on a world stage. I was hoping that the pvp system would of changed to make it skill based less p2w and fun and at least a bit competitive. The only competition is to see who's got a fatter wallet and get their PVP gear months and months sooner than those that try and grind it out. 

Hate to say it but isn't the point of MMOs in general is to gear yourself up to do a better job?  That would include in PvP right?

[zikira-KT]

I tend to agree that Aion pvp isn't really skillful,because there's simply too many variable's in it that can dictate the outcome of a Fight.

Godstones yes been here for eternity and wont be removed have  a effect on the fight outcome's.

Gear is the biggest issue if you just got gear with stats and no manastone socket's this would be better,as there wouldnt be people in+10 having a huge adavantage.

Enchanting again another problem if this was removed and gear couldnt be chanted to stupid levels of +20 or more and no bonus skill's.

Tempering also another thing that should be removed when you have people rocking +7-9 accessory's

Essence again has a impact on fights a higher level is going to have a much bigger essence pool for either damage spells or defensive options,not counting the addition of core's that can be+10 also.

PLume's and braclets yet more gear that causes gaps.

Personally all instanced pvp should get same gear and level scaled similar to Wow and all godstone's removed in it.This would at least make fights skill based rather than wallet based.

As to open world the developer's would have to totally rethink the gearing process,but i highly doubt anything would change because this is where they make their money.

There isnt skill in aion pvp because there's far far too many factors that affect it,it would be great if you just got gear and were done but unfortunately this isnt the case.

[Bryos-DN]

Well, that is the catch. Why bother gearing up at all if you wont put it for use? For most people, the biggest part of the activity comes form gearing up so that they can stand a chance against others.

[Cheesecake-DN]

I just gear up so I can look pretty while AFK'ing in Pandy/Sanctum. .-.

[Bryos-DN]

But that is a very valid reason to.

[Rinkusan-KT]

On 10/16/2017 at 3:09 PM, 1s359EBF-KT said:

I tend to agree that Aion pvp isn't really skillful,because there's simply too many variable's in it that can dictate the outcome of a Fight.

Godstones yes been here for eternity and wont be removed have  a effect on the fight outcome's.

Gear is the biggest issue if you just got gear with stats and no manastone socket's this would be better,as there wouldnt be people in+10 having a huge adavantage.

Enchanting again another problem if this was removed and gear couldnt be chanted to stupid levels of +20 or more and no bonus skill's.

Tempering also another thing that should be removed when you have people rocking +7-9 accessory's

Essence again has a impact on fights a higher level is going to have a much bigger essence pool for either damage spells or defensive options,not counting the addition of core's that can be+10 also.

PLume's and braclets yet more gear that causes gaps.

Personally all instanced pvp should get same gear and level scaled similar to Wow and all godstone's removed in it.This would at least make fights skill based rather than wallet based.

As to open world the developer's would have to totally rethink the gearing process,but i highly doubt anything would change because this is where they make their money.

There isnt skill in aion pvp because there's far far too many factors that affect it,it would be great if you just got gear and were done but unfortunately this isnt the case.

Having a bunch of variables in a fight does not mean that there isn't any skill in Aion PvP. What I think you're saying is that skill isn't the dominant factor in today's meta because of the large gear gap, right?

On 10/6/2017 at 6:11 PM, GenericUser4094 said:

lmfao at claiming a lvl 72 4.8 geared cloth beat rinku and claiming to have video evidence and then not showing it because 'reasons'

 

I'm sure everyone believes that happened.

I think it's unbelievable that this is even happening. Goes to show that if you have a different opinion, people will do whatever it takes to be in the right, even if it means resorting to wild defamation that has nothing to do with the opinion in the first place

[DevilNest-KT]

Ping > Skill > Gear    that's  how i see aion, just my opinion don't burn me to death guys lol

the cases i think gear is more importan than skill is when you face someone with defensive sets and you don't have the adeccuate set to counter it,
Nowadays the gear gap it is a lot more easy to close, a lot of instances are neferd, luna gives you a nice amount of manastones plus a few omega and temp, enchanting is safe till +15,we had a lot of events during the year that flooded the servers with usefull items, maybe ppl don't remmber and i don't know about the other servers, but when i first started to play in TM in december/january omega and tempering prices were crazy high like 400-500M omega and 600-700M tempering, everything is more accessible now

 

[StaNooblaitK-KT]

9 hours ago, DevilNest-KT said:

Ping > Skill > Gear    that's  how i see aion, just my opinion don't burn me to death guys lol

the cases i think gear is more importan than skill is when you face someone with defensive sets and you don't have the adeccuate set to counter it,
Nowadays the gear gap it is a lot more easy to close, a lot of instances are neferd, luna gives you a nice amount of manastones plus a few omega and temp, enchanting is safe till +15,we had a lot of events during the year that flooded the servers with usefull items, maybe ppl don't remmber and i don't know about the other servers, but when i first started to play in TM in december/january omega and tempering prices were crazy high like 400-500M omega and 600-700M tempering, everything is more accessible now

 

Idk, I don't consider the gear gap easier to close. But that's just me. With the new addition of the manastones, essence core, bracelets and the fact level is sadly a huge difference. I had +15 armor, some with +7 of the new stones and composites, +5 accessories, and +7 plume and bracelet and I still felt like I hit like a wet noodle and I got melted. I don't think having +15 armor really closes any gap with all this new stuff. But that's just me. 

[Rinkusan-KT]

16 hours ago, DevilNest-KT said:

Ping > Skill > Gear    that's  how i see aion, just my opinion don't burn me to death guys lol

the cases i think gear is more importan than skill is when you face someone with defensive sets and you don't have the adeccuate set to counter it,
Nowadays the gear gap it is a lot more easy to close, a lot of instances are neferd, luna gives you a nice amount of manastones plus a few omega and temp, enchanting is safe till +15,we had a lot of events during the year that flooded the servers with usefull items, maybe ppl don't remmber and i don't know about the other servers, but when i first started to play in TM in december/january omega and tempering prices were crazy high like 400-500M omega and 600-700M tempering, everything is more accessible now

 

I remember when temperings were literally over a bil each on Siel

I agree; as terrible as the gear gap was from the start of 5.0, at least it's getting a lot smaller.

I think the whole ping vs skill vs gear debate really depends on your class. Some classes are more ping-dependent than others (e.g. assassins). Some classes benefit more from having multiple sets than others (e.g. templars). Some classes benefit more from knowing the match-up than others (e.g. clerics and cloths).

[marikazan-KT]

14 hours ago, Rinkusan-KT said:

I remember when temperings were literally over a bil each on Siel

I agree; as terrible as the gear gap was from the start of 5.0, at least it's getting a lot smaller.

I think the whole ping vs skill vs gear debate really depends on your class. Some classes are more ping-dependent than others (e.g. assassins). Some classes benefit more from having multiple sets than others (e.g. templars). Some classes benefit more from knowing the match-up than others (e.g. clerics and cloths).

What im about to say is from a arena point of view not world pvp as it simply wouldnt work.

If every player could enter Arenas from literally any level and their gear and level was scaled to match their opponent then  we could  start to say Aion pvp was actually about Skill,While plumes,bracelets,essence points and highpowered daeva stones and essence core's and godstone's are in existence then no Pvp is not skillful.

If i could enter a arena in say the level 10 fledgling gear and face any player of any level in that gear with no plume's etc etc, then i could easily accept losing because it would be due to their Skill.

Don't care how anyone' try's to justify Aion pvp,there is little to no skill involved when plume's varying stone's,bracelets essence points,trasnforms and god know's how much else come into play,this game's pvp is far from skillful or engaging.

Tons of so called pvper's have been called out to things like Notaion or make an alt and duel in low level gear,few take up the challenge because they know well they are carried by their shiny+20 gears and +7 accessorys.

Even wow pvp has more skill and timing involved and they sure as hell ban cheating hacking scum regardless of money spent compared to ncsoft.

There will never be skill with the current aion gearing system there's far to many gaps to leap without spending money.

[StaNooblaitK-KT]

I have this weird feeling damage is so rng on all physical classes. But that's just me. You can totally see it on rangers. My sw always did the same damage 

[Jake-DN]

15 hours ago, LilHotii-KT said:

I have this weird feeling damage is so rng on all physical classes. But that's just me. You can totally see it on rangers. My sw always did the same damage 

Rangers damage, especially Stunning shot/rupture chain has a wider spread. One of the many reasons why magic is so OP is that it does static damage.

Melee damage has a variable spread. 

[Mempo-KT]

On 10/21/2017 at 8:00 PM, marikazan-KT said:

Even wow pvp has more skill and timing involved

Top kek. 

[Squid]

On 10/5/2017 at 7:54 PM, DevilsShadow-DN said:

PVP still lame as shit P2W trash running around in the game?

Since no one really answered your question i shall. Its p2 be competitive you can win against AFK people in towns so no its not p2w but if you come across anyone in open world or pvp instances they probably have better gear then you.

[Mempo-KT]

This needs locking.

[meme-KT]

How exactly would a lvl72 beat rinku in his +20 pay2win gear? Not even donny from <pay2win squad> can beat him.

[Rinkusan-KT]

1 hour ago, meme-KT said:

How exactly would a lvl72 beat rinku in his +20 pay2win gear? Not even donny from <pay2win squad> can beat him.

Just to clarify: I don't pay2win. All of the gear I have I've farmed over the course of 5.X; some of it is event stuff, and some of it is simple PvE. Example: that "+20 pay2win gear" you mentioned is nothing more than a single +20 piece of armor made from enchanting 5 free 75ap armor pieces from the plume event a while back, and this was back when +2/+3 enchant jumps were common. Please don't accuse me or brick squad of paying2win without clear evidence

Also, if this thread is going to continue, would it be alright if I'm left out as a topic of discussion? My PvP track record and gear progression has absolutely nothing to do with this thread.