steel rake bans [Merged]

[Rubyel]

29 minutes ago, HealingSquid-KT said:

That is abuse of the report system not an SR bug then. That is something completely different.

 

and that's exactly what we're talking about here.

 

[Amarah-KT]

Aaahhh. Loki locked another thread!  Save my thread fam! 

[Cherish]

35 minutes ago, Amarah-KT said:

Aaahhh. Loki locked another thread!  Save my thread fam! 

Maybe if they'd stop locking threads and instead worked with us & higher ups on giving us actual answers on what's going and why we're all getting banned/temp banned for something we have no idea what we did over, we'd stop making threads. 

While all the bots are still running wild.

[Itzjustme]

 

[Airashi]

2 hours ago, TellyTally said:

i was also ban for 7 days running SR on Monday. i am so sad because i dont even know why. 

Wow you actually got a response? I am still waiting for a single response from 48hours ago. NCSOFT does not have the courtesy to respond to a paying customer. So shameless.

[Peto]

it so ridiculous

i got banned 6 days ago, sent a tickets, got unclear/useless response as usual. I just know that i will be banned for 7 days. I was so angry.

Then today, 1 day more to wait, i got a new email from NC supporters (as a new ticket, not from old ticket). New email saying that i got banned because of exploiting SR. 

Im speechless.

So, the problem is WHAT is SR exploiting? I dont think they are considering bug of entry quest is exploiting. But something more that we did not know.

- Get in SR again with new group after last run ~2hours is exploiting??? (server reset)
- Same run but get in/out many times for repeating quest?
- Loot any kind of box inside SR?

[Alvie]

Well Kibbelz said a week ago support were looking into banning players that did the Steel Rake kinah exploit, of which there have been several threads over the past fortnight.

So it looks like they did.

[Itzjustme]

4 minutes ago, Alvie said:

Well Kibbelz said a week ago support were looking into banning players that did the Steel Rake kinah exploit, of which there have been several threads over the past fortnight.

So it looks like they did.

Ummmm, the problem is that they are also banning players that did NOT do any kind of exploit but simply turn in repeatable quests multiple times during one instance run of SR.

[Cherish]

@KibbelzSorry not sorry for the tagging, but any updates at all? 

[Nitro]

first of all, i am not banned, but of course i noticed this banwave-

i heardt, that reason was told is, that people "overloot" or do the quest multiple times per steelrake run. if this is really the reason they are telling you, this is freakin PATHETIC. this method was pretty common in aion 1.5 - every veteran player will confirm this. if this is really the reason they justify their bans, i consider it as scam. most of the players bought siels aura and missing out paid service. player base of aion na classic is so small, they freakin totally ruined it now. i would suggest everyone to cancel subscription and leave the game. let them die. 

 

the SR kinah exploit itself was fixed in korea before even the game was released in NA. why they dont get this patch? cannot be that hard. instead some (sorry) idiot does a stupid filter to ban many players.

 

meanwhile, all bots running around since start of the game. hilarious!

[Leiloni]

19 hours ago, Rubyel said:

let's take a look at this line from the Itzjustme post. his ticket response has an interesting line.

GM replied that the exploit bug was proven for two reasons

 

"confirmed both by report and through the game logs"

 

by my understanding you were not banned for doing something wrong but because you were REPORTED by a member of your group who saw you leaving and entering the instance to deliver the hairpin quest. in my view anyone in the group reports people doing the quest he will cause the automatic ban system on everyone he reported. this is very dangerous because if a player knows this he will run STEEL RAKE just to report people and make them get banned unfairly. that's why the number of bans has grown with each passing day. i got banned last friday i was probably one of the first to be banned.

To be honest I think that line is a load of bullshit and just yet another copy/paste response. I have a friend who was banned on last Friday the 30th and after many emails still not told why except that they'd reduced it to a 7 day ban. Today, one day before he's allowed back in, he gets that same copy/paste SR email about another 7 day ban and "reports and game logs" except for the fact that he hasn't been online at all. So what exactly are they doing over there?

They need to carefully recheck everyone that they've banned because I bet most of them haven't done a thing. They also need to clarify what is and isn't allowed so players aren't playing guessing games. It's hard to play by the rules if we don't know what the rules are. And the support staff needs to understand the game they're supporting.

[Leiloni]

52 minutes ago, Nitro said:

i heardt, that reason was told is, that people "overloot" or do the quest multiple times per steelrake run. if this is really the reason they are telling you, this is freakin PATHETIC. this method was pretty common in aion 1.5 - every veteran player will confirm this. if this is really the reason they justify their bans, i consider it as scam. most of the players bought siels aura and missing out paid service. player base of aion na classic is so small, they freakin totally ruined it now. i would suggest everyone to cancel subscription and leave the game. let them die. 

This is really the problem. People have been doing SR Hairpin runs like this (and later some do the pouches) like this since 2009. So if NCSoft is banning people for playing the game the same way they played it 10-12 years ago when it was legal and common, then they need to make an announcement that it's now not allowed. NCSoft needs to communicate either way. If they messed up, then fix it and give people who were banned some compensation. If it's not allowed tell all of us so we can play appropriately. As it is right now people are avoiding SR entirely because nobody knows what the bans are actually for. I have at least 2 guildies that need quests in SR and are avoiding them because a)they're afraid of bans, and b)nobody wants to go with them.

As an additional thought NCSoft needs to answer - is it ok that people are doing lower fort repeats in this manner as well? Cause nobody wants to get banned in a week or two for something they never realized wasn't ok.

[ErzaScarletxFT]

What's worse than getting banned in Aion Retail than in Aion Classic?  Getting Banned in a pay to play Version of the Game. 

And I mean being unfairly banned.

[Arctic]

3 hours ago, Cherish said:

@KibbelzSorry not sorry for the tagging, but any updates at all? 

Hi Cherish. So, I forwarded this to our PD team on Tuesday and they made it clear to me that there is no automated tool being used for banning. That said, they also agreed to inquire/investigate. I will follow-up to see if there has been any meaningful update worth sharing with everyone.

[Rubyel]

because and it seems that now finally you can have an idea that some player found a loophole in the reports article. because even if the check is done manually, it is certainly not described what the guy was doing in the SR, but that he was indicated for being there. so whoever is banning is not taking the precaution of entering the game and knowing what or how the instance works. once again it seems to me that besides this person never having worked at NC it seems that in 12 years this same GM never played AION.

 

*even now I won't be able to sleep well anymore, since my second character is almost 50 and I won't risk making steel rake as it is the only instance that has a SET BONUS. all because. any sucker can sit at the door of the instance reporting all players entering and leaving the instance. just a note if this is not resolved soon after 1 month in the mini 45% of the server will be banned for the same reason 45% because I am being modest but in my view this number can reach 80% since almost the entire server has been there doing PIN/POUCH that is, I don't need to know who did it, I just need to report it and so it will be checked and BINGO. ban

[Bip]

11 minutes ago, Kibbelz said:

Hi Cherish. So, I forwarded this to our PD team on Tuesday and they made it clear to me that there is no automated tool being used for banning. That said, they also agreed to inquire/investigate. I will follow-up to see if there has been any meaningful update worth sharing with everyone.

@KibbelzPLEASE make sure that whoever is checking the logs is checking if people are entering and leaving the instance to turn in the hairpin quest. Or any other quest for that matter.
Because it would be pretty lame if all those complaining were actually abusing the kinah boxes. I refuse to believe that is the case...
We know support KNOWS NOTHNG about the game AT ALL. So I ask you again: Please make it 100% sure that whoever is reviewing those logs knows WTF they are looking at.

I'm about to start doing my hairpin quest, and if I get banned I will be sure to refund everything!

[Rubyel]

2 minutes ago, Bip said:

@KibbelzPLEASE make sure that whoever is checking the logs is checking if people are entering and leaving the instance to turn in the hairpin quest. Or any other quest for that matter.
Because it would be pretty lame if all those complaining were actually abusing the kinah boxes. I refuse to believe that is the case...
We know support KNOWS NOTHNG about the game AT ALL. So I ask you again: Please make it 100% sure that whoever is reviewing those logs knows WTF they are looking at.

I'm about to start doing my hairpin quest, and if I get banned I will be sure to refund everything!

trust, dont do... 

is that simple someone know that if you reported for exploit SR you character will be check by someone and in the logs will prove you enter and leave so many times you will be banned in the same way of all here.

as i told yesterday a sucker was nyerking the entire game whit idiots report because that know plp will get ban for sure.

[Rag-DN]

19 minutes ago, Kibbelz said:

Hi Cherish. So, I forwarded this to our PD team on Tuesday and they made it clear to me that there is no automated tool being used for banning. That said, they also agreed to inquire/investigate. I will follow-up to see if there has been any meaningful update worth sharing with everyone.

@Kibbelz
I don't want to tell you how to do your job...but... you could of saved a ton of drama and prevented the customerbase from giving you and NCsoft such a bad reputation simply by telling us back on Tuesday that you were looking into this instead of going radio silent. I think we've been through this a dozen times before, COMUNICATION is important between the player base and the NCwest staff. The fact that @Loki literally locked a thread asking about this subject and only replied with a troll meme was very unprofessional and caused a lot of rage from players.  idk if @Gideon is still in charge or not but I couldn't imagine this would be acceptable behavior for any staff member to do.

P.S.   This actually pains me to post because my run ins with Loki have always been mostly pleasant and productive, but clearly this incident was not handled in the best manor possible by the NCwest staff.

[Rubyel]

what loki did yesterday i prefer not to think.

it reminded me of the old times where I played on private servers of other games and when I talked to STAFF to solve a problem they would answer "It's your problem if you're having difficulty with something"

here where I am in front of a large company that receives money to continue having its active programming. Seeing that kind of attitude and at the very least thinking that this company doesn't deserve my money.

[Amarah-KT]

30 minutes ago, Kibbelz said:

Hi Cherish. So, I forwarded this to our PD team on Tuesday and they made it clear to me that there is no automated tool being used for banning. That said, they also agreed to inquire/investigate. I will follow-up to see if there has been any meaningful update worth sharing with everyone.

What in the actual Nyerk @kibblez?!  You only respond to certain people?! I really had hope for you when you first started.  I appreciate my thread not getting locked but this sort of selective participation is not helpful.  We are paying customers.  Even in retail we pay for prestige, luna, decent events.  There are dozens of players who are out their time and money.  Banned in classic means also banned in retail.  Youre looking at years invested!! I will admit Im jealous that you actually respond to some people at all!  But nyerk sake dude..  youre a COMMUNITY manager, not a 1 or 2 player manager.  HELP US!!!!!!!!

 

[Amarah-KT]

And yes. When youre looking at ACCOUNTS most people used the same account in classic as retail. So losing all of it.  Everything.  Is destructive on a scale I dont see the team comprehending.  Thats why players will keep posting.  A wrongful ban -even a 7 day- puts a blemish on that account.  And its not their fault!  Posting a week ago that steel rake abusers have been dealt with then waiting 5 days to look into these complaints, and 2 more to follow up is frustrating! 

[Rubyel]

2 minutes ago, Amarah-KT said:

And yes. When youre looking at ACCOUNTS most people used the same account in classic as retail. So losing all of it.  Everything.  Is destructive on a scale I dont see the team comprehending.  Thats why players will keep posting.  A wrongful ban -even a 7 day- puts a blemish on that account.  And its not their fault!  Posting a week ago that steel rake abusers have been dealt with then waiting 5 days to look into these complaints, and 2 more to follow up is frustrating! 

as I said it seems to be an INNOCENT GM because if he sees that someone was reported by SR exploit. and when he goes to check that character's log he can't distinguish will be doing the Bug that has ALREADY been CORRECTED by the administration (there's no way to do it anymore). with entering and exiting the instance several times, if he's using this point of view he's dumb. because it's obvious that in 12 years people have always left the instances to deliver quests, go get supplys. among others related

[Cherish]

1 hour ago, Kibbelz said:

Hi Cherish. So, I forwarded this to our PD team on Tuesday and they made it clear to me that there is no automated tool being used for banning. That said, they also agreed to inquire/investigate. I will follow-up to see if there has been any meaningful update worth sharing with everyone.

Have them look into seeing if people exiting & re-entering the instance for repeatable is what could be causing it, please. We have always been able to do the cabin hairpin repeatable quest 2-4 times per instance run with all the mobs. If after 11 years that is no longer allowed they need to change the quest into a daily repeatable.

If it's the treasure chest above the fat cat lady, remove the treasure boxes from mid/uppers.

Or do both and take out two birds with one stone. Just have them stop banning us for legit game play. 

[Cherish]

21 minutes ago, Amarah-KT said:

And yes. When youre looking at ACCOUNTS most people used the same account in classic as retail. So losing all of it.  Everything.  Is destructive on a scale I dont see the team comprehending.  Thats why players will keep posting.  A wrongful ban -even a 7 day- puts a blemish on that account.  And its not their fault!  Posting a week ago that steel rake abusers have been dealt with then waiting 5 days to look into these complaints, and 2 more to follow up is frustrating! 

THIS! A few of us have been told we are on our "last warning before permaban" for "exploiting" when all we've been doing is playing/running the instance as it has been since launch. If I get a permaban after my temp ban is up, I'm done and will be going through said chargeback process.

Fix your shit and go ban actual bots/exploiters that are running rampant.

[Rubyel]

that's just it @Cherish

what is the attribute that the GM is using to ban the accounts that are being reported?

for something that for 12 years was legal and out of nowhere without prior notice became illegal. (I'm referring to the replay quests"

This is the first point.

The SR entry quest bug has been fixed (the chests have been deleted from the IMAGE MAP) thus, the same chests were also deleted from the INSTANCED NORMAL MAP. It's obvious ,that you just stop to think about.

what did the BUG consist of was not entering and exiting the access quest several times to get kinah?

of course it was and for those who don't know the IMAGE MAP IS A STEEL RAKE CREATED JUST FOR YOU, that is, everything exists inside it, even the bosses, the keys etc etc.

what changes is that you are inside the prison cell you do not have access to the rest of the map content, plus those who used the HACK to cross walls and NO GRAVITY (i dont like tho say the same of things because that things ruinned the game ).could walk all over the map and even level up hunting creatures of the map inside that IMAGE MAP.

what it seems to me is that when someone is reported to the staff, it looks at how many times the character has entered and exited the instance. and yes every time you enter and leave it COUNTS WITH 1 ENTRY. so that's why they are deducing that if in 5hrs of cd you entered and exited the instance 2-4 times in 10hrs you entered and exited 4-8 in their vision " yes you were taking advantage of something". but what? if the bug has already been fixed. and in the case of hairpin NEVER IN THE HISTORY OF AION in 2009/2010/2011/2012/2013 (the years I have play this game every single day) a mass ban because people did TURN IN.