Question for Kibbelz

[Rag-DN]

So @Kibbelz can you ask the support team to clarify a few things for us:

 

• Is purposely training your own faction legal?
• Is using animation hacks allowable or can NCsoft just not detect it?
• Is AP trading legal?
• Is racist comments and profanity allowed in game?

There are a good handful of players that actively do all these actions on a regular basis. We take screen shots and videos of it, submit it to support, get automated responses saying they'll investigate the incidents but then we still see the same players still in game the next day and days following. Where is the line where these players will actually get banned or suspended so the community doesn't end up dieing like it did on retail? If this type of behavior is left unchecked and allowed I promise you will keep loosing customers, myself included.

[Wrathchild-KT]

Is using animation hacks allowable or can NCsoft just not detect it?

It is not that they cant detect, they can, they just dont care as long as u keep paying subscription and buying things on cash shop.

Is AP trading legal?

It is not, but u wont get banned for the same reason above.

[Supvolcom-DN]

I was told that NCSoft doesn't automatically detect things like animation hacks and thus, rely on our reports.

When reporting, it apparently helps to include a video and detailed explanation of whats happening in that video so the GM reviewing it understands whats going on.

Now does this actually result in any type of bans? It's supposed to but in my experience I usually just continue to see the cheater week after week blatantly cheating.

[Squid]

3 hours ago, Supvolcom-DN said:

I was told that NCSoft doesn't automatically detect things like animation hacks and thus, rely on our reports.

It is not that they don't it is simply they can't. If you do not hire people for anti-cheat development then you can never catch anyone cheating through automatic detection.

[Phidippus]

I think it's great how monstrous that this community can be. One side leans towards realistic issues that SHOULD be addressed, and the other posts about how we should get over it. The community is right in being upset considering that the "PREMIUMS" we're paying, should be enough to pay someone off to actually do a job of keeping the game to a quality standard,  but no. The sub falls to a joke standard.  It's sad that players fall into the complacency and (entitlememt?) of saying "get over it." Additionally, I remember reading someone else commenting that technically this a finished game, and I can understand in a way. It makes me think that the only dev that seems to be overlooking all of this is a mere puppet of the WHALE of a company that NCSoft is. It really is all to milk the playerbase that exists now. All about the monetary gains while spending little in quality overlook. If their main focus is Korean players, then we fall dead and this is just to make money. 

[Arhangelos]

15 hours ago, Rag-DN said:

• Is purposely training your own faction legal?
• Is using animation hacks allowable or can NCsoft just not detect it?
• Is AP trading legal?
• Is racist comments and profanity allowed in game?

Training your own faction cannot be against the rules, I could be wrong but nobody can prevent you from gathering mobs and running them around while someone else is around.

They can defo detect the animation if they want, if any client can detect the animation and the server speed and all (like the damage meter programs) then so can the server, the server is the one that sends the information to clients so the dps programs sniff it and make the dps meters.

I swear it was mentioned in the past it was against the rules but I couldn't find it in the user agreements currently. This type of behavior could have been addressed by the game mechanics not by putting rules. Like limit the amount of AP you can get from one player more etc. There were times the highest ranks would sell with real money trade to be killed for finishing an abyss quest with good godstone rewards or finish other important "kill a general" quest. There are times someone keeps killing a bot which auto rezes, that could be seen as an AP trade too.

You get banned for writing something wrong much faster than you would ever for using any cheat. Even names are easy to remove for this reason. Even if you write something insensitive but not racist you can get a 3~7 days chat ban.

[Rag-DN]

8 hours ago, Arhangelos said:

Training your own faction cannot be against the rules, I could be wrong but nobody can prevent you from gathering mobs and running them around while someone else is around.

They can defo detect the animation if they want, if any client can detect the animation and the server speed and all (like the damage meter programs) then so can the server, the server is the one that sends the information to clients so the dps programs sniff it and make the dps meters.

 

When the game first came out I remember a lot of players being banned for, and I quote, "Hindering the faction's progression."  This involved a list of things such as grieving players of the same faction by training them, KSing mobs from lower level players, among other poor tactics. I myself even got a suspension once because I grief trained a troll player that ninja looted a weapon in my group in FT when the game first came out 12+ years ago, after that I was like yeah, that was in poor taste on my part but I was angry so I deserved a time out for acting so childishly.  

It's understandable if someone accidently trains a player, but there are some clear cut and dry same faction training that takes place, like when someone pulls a ton of mobs to a player and purposely dies ontop of their target player so the mobs deagro and go onto that other player. Or when players that camp Queen Alukina fly around the island and pull all the mobs when theres a clear easy path to get to her and pull all those mobs to the boss to whipe those attempting to kill her.

As for detecting animation hackers, I remember a post a few years back where the developers of several DPS meters spoke on the forums and openly offered to give their DPS meter scripts to NCsoft for FREE to help them detect animation hackers. NCwest ignored the post though and never even replied on it. 

[Alvie]

On 8/19/2021 at 4:33 AM, Rag-DN said:

So @Kibbelz can you ask the support team to clarify a few things for us:

 

• Is purposely training your own faction legal?
• Is using animation hacks allowable or can NCsoft just not detect it?
• Is AP trading legal?
• Is racist comments and profanity allowed in game?

There are a good handful of players that actively do all these actions on a regular basis. We take screen shots and videos of it, submit it to support, get automated responses saying they'll investigate the incidents but then we still see the same players still in game the next day and days following. Where is the line where these players will actually get banned or suspended so the community doesn't end up dieing like it did on retail? If this type of behavior is left unchecked and allowed I promise you will keep loosing customers, myself included.

The legal documentation including the Code of Conduct can be found at the bottom right of the forum pages

http://www.ncsoft.com/en/legal/

No need to pester Kibbelz to read it out for you.

[Rag-DN]

1 hour ago, Alvie said:

The legal documentation including the Code of Conduct can be found at the bottom right of the forum pages

http://www.ncsoft.com/en/legal/

No need to pester Kibbelz to read it out for you.

I know where to find the TOS, but the TOS is very, VERY broadly worded.... example:

 

Quote

3 YOUR CONDUCT

v.  Create, use, offer, promote, or distribute any cheats, bots, or hacks.

iv.  Test for vulnerabilities, exploit any bug, engage in trafficking, or circumvent any technological measure intended to control access to the Services.

x. Defraud, harass, threaten, or cause distress to any other user of the Services.

People could easily argue that AP trading is exploiting a vulnerability and it is clearly causing distress to other users of the service, yet they still remain in the game.

Training your own faction is clearly harassment of other users of the service, yet those players that do so intentionally are still left in the game.

We're just trying to understand why there are so many bad apples in our community that after years of them doing this type of behavior their still around. (And don't say it's because their whales, because I know a few whales that played legit, got angry, and went and did some naughty things and got banned despite maxing their NCsoft max limit every month so that's clearly not what's protecting them)

[Squid]

4 hours ago, Rag-DN said:

We're just trying to understand why there are so many bad apples in our community that after years of them doing this type of behavior their still around. (And don't say it's because their whales, because I know a few whales that played legit, got angry, and went and did some naughty things and got banned despite maxing their NCsoft max limit every month so that's clearly not what's protecting them)

They are still around because they are not being reported. Legit players are lazy. Right now with all the AP trading going on why are there not 2-300 people on the forums complaining about it? Either less than 30% of the population cares OR they are to lazy to do anything about it because they do not want to be met with silence from the company.

One of the funniest parts about whales that do naughty things and then get banned is because the cheaters actually mass report people. If you do not conform to the exploiters rules you are being mass reported and thus something gets done about it. Imagine 300+ people reporting you every day/other day on multiple accounts. That gets NCwests attention while legit players who are not united are not mass reporting they are under the assumption nothing gets done.

This is why big spenders can still get banned.

[Rain-DN]

6 hours ago, Rag-DN said:

I know where to find the TOS, but the TOS is very, VERY broadly worded.... example:

 

People could easily argue that AP trading is exploiting a vulnerability and it is clearly causing distress to other users of the service, yet they still remain in the game.

Training your own faction is clearly harassment of other users of the service, yet those players that do so intentionally are still left in the game.

We're just trying to understand why there are so many bad apples in our community that after years of them doing this type of behavior their still around. (And don't say it's because their whales, because I know a few whales that played legit, got angry, and went and did some naughty things and got banned despite maxing their NCsoft max limit every month so that's clearly not what's protecting them)

[Demigo]

"Is using animation hacks allowable or can NCsoft just not detect it?" Rag-DN

I don't know what you mean by this, unless you are referring to Canceling. Which can be done by pretty much any class. Jumping at the right times during a skill or casting at certain points while moving. This was a thing back in 09-10 and was not bannable. There are guides to do it on yt without programs. It's not an exploit because it was never addressed by NC back in the day and was considered the sign of a good player who understood mechanics. So, this particular point confuses me.

[1s31CD47]

2 hours ago, Demigo said:

"Is using animation hacks allowable or can NCsoft just not detect it?" Rag-DN

I don't know what you mean by this, unless you are referring to Canceling. Which can be done by pretty much any class. Jumping at the right times during a skill or casting at certain points while moving. This was a thing back in 09-10 and was not bannable. There are guides to do it on yt without programs. It's not an exploit because it was never addressed by NC back in the day and was considered the sign of a good player who understood mechanics. So, this particular point confuses me.

don't act dumb ani cancelling is not ani hacking

[heydarling]

ncsoft doesnt care. they made a quick buck off all the morons who paid out the ass for a game they've already played in detail.  now they're just sitting back and collecting from the desperate nerds who have nothing outside of aion.  thse people are their cash cows.  sitting in moms basement spending their covid checks on aion. 

 

according to nc soft,  its working as intended!

[Rag-DN]

11 hours ago, HealingSquid-KT said:

They are still around because they are not being reported. Legit players are lazy. Right now with all the AP trading going on why are there not 2-300 people on the forums complaining about it? Either less than 30% of the population cares OR they are to lazy to do anything about it because they do not want to be met with silence from the company.

One of the funniest parts about whales that do naughty things and then get banned is because the cheaters actually mass report people. If you do not conform to the exploiters rules you are being mass reported and thus something gets done about it. Imagine 300+ people reporting you every day/other day on multiple accounts. That gets NCwests attention while legit players who are not united are not mass reporting they are under the assumption nothing gets done.

This is why big spenders can still get banned.

I know a lot of people have given up on submitting tickets on other players because NCsoft seems to never ban the infamous people. Even I loose motivation every now and then.

Just the other day though I submitted a vid to NCsoft of a group training their own faction and some of them using anihacks (There was a gladdy basically tweeking out like he was on crack, able to pull agro off a world boss that doesn't do an agro dump skill from a templar that had been building agro for over 25% within a few seconds of dpsing and was #1 dps on the Myaion dps meter even though everyone else had been there for about 5+ minutes DPSing) Those players all are still in game.  Just like a certain known player that keeps random inviting players to groups then sets an LFG recruit message for "N****R HUNTING" and leaves the group trying to get players they hate banned, they are still around and not banned yet. I promise you that player has been reported by dozens of players. 

As for the AP traders, i know a few players that have submitted screen shots of certain players openly talking about AP trading along with videos and those players are mostly still around. Heck look through this thread, there's several that admit they do it and that their not going to stop doing it.  Why @Kibbelz doesn't turn these accounts into the support staff or someone idk, hence why there's so many threads from angry players. 

Idk if the NCwest even looks at their own feedback from other sites, but if they simply Google search "Aion" the top results are all horrible reviews from gaming communities, online MMO review websites, streamers, etc all bashing NCwest for their handling of the game. They all agree Aion could be an amazing game but the lack of NCwests ability to monitor their community or listen to them makes the game unplayable to most players. 

Heck here's one of the very first reviews from Google that pops up for a 1 star rating (out of 5)

 

Quote

Was a good game but there is no good support, game is nothing but hacks so if u want to just play forget it as the hacks screw up your trying to move. Ncsoft only cares about money they can make while it lasts but it is a dying game due to the frustration of no rules and ncsoft not caring whats going on..

If I was an employee at NCwest I'd be more then ashamed and embarrassed to be working with such a stigmatism attached to my employer. It obviously can bold well for their future careers... Imaging if they try to work for another publisher and they look at their resume and see they worked at NCwest, commonly referred to and known as NcFail among the gaming community.  Do you really think those other publishers are going to want those type of employees coming over to work for them? NCwest needs to wake up and take action.

[Jaga-DN]

1 hour ago, Rag-DN said:

If I was an employee at NCwest I'd be more then ashamed and embarrassed to be working with such a stigmatism attached to my employer. It obviously can bold well for their future careers... Imaging if they try to work for another publisher and they look at their resume and see they worked at NCwest, commonly referred to and known as NcFail among the gaming community.  Do you really think those other publishers are going to want those type of employees coming over to work for them? NCwest needs to wake up and take action.

That's a pretty valid point, but that's assuming the staff plays the game, reads the forum or understands how the game works.  I would be impressed if they had any idea that the community thinks negatively about them.

[Arctic]

We've just provided an update on AP Trading here. As to the other questions, I would point also point towards the User Agreement which details what is acceptable behaviour and what is not. For example:

On 8/18/2021 at 11:33 AM, Rag-DN said:

• Is racist comments and profanity allowed in game?

"User Content may not: (a) violate the Rules of Conduct or any Community Standards posted by us on our sites; (b) be vulgar, threatening, racist, sexist..."

I don't actually handle the enforcement of these rules, but I would always encourage users to submit tickets and/or report players for unacceptable behavior so that our teams can more easily identify when/where such behavior occurs.

[Demigo]

22 hours ago, 1s31CD47 said:

don't act dumb ani cancelling is not ani hacking

What? Care to speak English?

[Rag-DN]

On 8/20/2021 at 2:06 AM, Demigo said:

"Is using animation hacks allowable or can NCsoft just not detect it?" Rag-DN

I don't know what you mean by this, unless you are referring to Canceling. Which can be done by pretty much any class. Jumping at the right times during a skill or casting at certain points while moving. This was a thing back in 09-10 and was not bannable. There are guides to do it on yt without programs. It's not an exploit because it was never addressed by NC back in the day and was considered the sign of a good player who understood mechanics. So, this particular point confuses me.

What we are referring to is there is a program that allows you to bypass the in-game cast/attack speed. You can even set it whatever % you want to avoid being detected by DPS meters. You basically can give your characters Perma-WOW/WOQ. 

[Demigo]

On 8/23/2021 at 1:36 AM, Rag-DN said:

What we are referring to is there is a program that allows you to bypass the in-game cast/attack speed. You can even set it whatever % you want to avoid being detected by DPS meters. You basically can give your characters Perma-WOW/WOQ. 

Ahh, ok. I was assuming people were calling hacks against people who were actually just animation cancelling with proper timed jumps and such. My bad.